How long does it typically take a musician before he can compose high quality riffs? My problem is that while I could write an entire song if I wanted to, I'm a perfectionist and I've only written one or two riffs I consider to be extremely catchy. I've been playing for about 4 years, though the first two years I didn't play too seriously.
making awesoem riffs
- Thread starter DeathMetal4tw
- Start date
ParsonsMatt
Alas, Tyranny
Orion Crystal Ice
Rider of the Astral Fire
I try, and I'd like to think I succeed, but I also always worry the supply is getting low or something or I'll run out of ideas, especially if things go slow. It also sucks now since so many riffs have been written already. Dunno what to tell you. 
Also, this may sound too controversial, but I feel like certain branches of melo-death and power metal have flourished as a result of the 'vocal melody' well and the 'guitar riff' well seeming more dry nowadays. Some power metal throws all their great melodies into the vocal lines, and most melo-death throws all their melodies into riffs and harmonies.
Also, this may sound too controversial, but I feel like certain branches of melo-death and power metal have flourished as a result of the 'vocal melody' well and the 'guitar riff' well seeming more dry nowadays. Some power metal throws all their great melodies into the vocal lines, and most melo-death throws all their melodies into riffs and harmonies.
genocide roach
DOOOOOOOOOOM
- Aug 18, 2002
- 9,421
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viewerfromnihil
Vein-Marbled Tower
My friend has played while high and reports that he thinks he's playing really well and then realizes he's just making noise.
Anyhow.
Time doesn't enter into it because more technical =/= better necessarily. Regardless, the best songs generally only have a couple really awesome riffs and then the rest will be generic stuff. This is because you can't really sing over hooks - verse and chorus stuff usually should be pretty simple so the vocals can take the stage. BOCTAOE. Also, the awesomeness of a song is not entirely due to it's riffs - basically, a song with a 2 solid, mildly catchy riffs, generic power chord stuff under verse and chorus, and a competent solo will be a great song if the vocals are decent and the vocal lines and chorus are catchy and the whole thing is put together well. Really. Think about a bunch of your favorite thrash songs. I bet you most of them won't have any truly jaw-dropping riffs. But they kick ass because the whole thing comes together.
Basically, what I'm saying is relax your standards.
Anyhow.
Time doesn't enter into it because more technical =/= better necessarily. Regardless, the best songs generally only have a couple really awesome riffs and then the rest will be generic stuff. This is because you can't really sing over hooks - verse and chorus stuff usually should be pretty simple so the vocals can take the stage. BOCTAOE. Also, the awesomeness of a song is not entirely due to it's riffs - basically, a song with a 2 solid, mildly catchy riffs, generic power chord stuff under verse and chorus, and a competent solo will be a great song if the vocals are decent and the vocal lines and chorus are catchy and the whole thing is put together well. Really. Think about a bunch of your favorite thrash songs. I bet you most of them won't have any truly jaw-dropping riffs. But they kick ass because the whole thing comes together.
Basically, what I'm saying is relax your standards.
Mother North
New Metal Member
I play much cooler stuff when i'm high,i think its a great creativity booster for the people who can play well but cant always think of the best riffs on the spot.
BlackMetalWhiteGuy
Manly Man!
When I was younger I used to think we were "running out" of music and that all good songs were already written, but I still kept hearing new music and eventually took an interest in writing it myself. When I got TabIt in college and started screwing around with that, I learned that writing new music is much easier than I ever thought it would be, and after learning more theory, it just got easier and easier. If I'm ever facing a block in creativity, I can always just write something in a different genre, go back to a scale that I haven't used in a while, or experiment with a new one.I try, and I'd like to think I succeed, but I also always worry the supply is getting low or something or I'll run out of ideas, especially if things go slow. It also sucks now since so many riffs have been written already. Dunno what to tell you.
After studying musicology in greater depth though, I really don't think it makes any sense to run out of possible music, because even the limited twelve tone system that we Westerns use has produced an amazing variety of different genres and styles.
I should learn to take some of this advice. While I'm generally happy with the individual musical pieces that I write, I have a lot of trouble writing complete songs. True, the average music listener isn't as critical of your music as you are, but it's still difficult to break out of the "everything must be awesome" mindset.
It's not that they're less critical, it's that you have to hear the whole thing. Most people write their music on one instrument. I write everything on guitar and so I think of the guitar being the lead instrument all the time, but I have to force myself to back off sometimes and think about it, because during the verse and chorus the guitar has to take a backing role. It'd be really distracting if there was a chorus while the guitar was doing some really complex riffing - granted, some bands can do that but in general when the guitar is backing stuff it should be simple.
I dont believe instruments have to back off, just find better ways to blend into the grand scheme of things. In a good song every instrument should be doing something interesting at all times.
I think you either have it or you dont. Its all in the groove for me. Also speaking for myself, not learning much of others peoples music keeps me clear of all that. There is a down side to not learning all the technical stuff but I prefer unobstructed creativity. I will also add, some of my favorite riffs/rhythms/grooves came while jamming away with a mild buzz on. Others came stone sober but were inspired by pain of loss or frustration. I just let it go, if something comes out thats good, it was supposed too, if its not coming its not going to. Then I have my base and I work the rest out with thought, but for starters you have to hear it or feel it in your mind.
it doesn't have to be complex, but if by backing off he means playing a few power chords then theres a good chance its already been done before. Even simple things like making your chords more dynamic, playing a suble lead or strumming in a more creative way can add interest.
By back off I mean sorta simplify. So that guitar may be playing a power chord progression that sounds fine but doesn't draw your attention away from vocals. If you have vocals, a drum solo, slap bass, and some sweeping on the guitar it's just gonna sound like Braindrill and nobody wants that.
Basically, obviously everything that's being played should be good, it's not like you should just play something shitty because it's not your turn, but one instrument takes the lead and when that's not you you shouldn't play something that draws attention. So you want a guitar line that doesn't move too much, because that pulls your attention away.
But then, sometimes the guitar riff is so perfect behind the vocals/keyboard solo or whatever that it still rates top knotch guitar work.
FFS you're here too, BMWG?
Heres some tips straight from my old engineering teacher, that I converted into music writing. It's all about brainstorming, and proper ways to do it. They really do help, at least they help me. They might help you, because I thought of the same things mentioned until I took a more technical and organized look at this.
Firstly, perfectionist = bad. Like it was said, no musician is perfect. You shouldn't just keep the "good" ideas, you should keep ANY idea that you get. Literally, every single riff that comes to you out of no where in inspiration, or that you randomly sit there and suddenly figure out, put ALL of it down. Every, SINGLE freaking idea. Even the most stupid sounding ones. It also helps A LOT more to put down your ideas if its recording them, or tabbing them; In fact, this is key to the idea. Programs like Guitar Pro or Tabit are ESPECIALLY helpful in this. Make sure you record/tab any idea that you get, don't rely on your memory. I have a few hundred random riffs lying around, like a library of my mind, organized for my convenient browsing.
The reason why you should keep every single idea, is because any idea has the potential to become a great idea. Even the worst. You can tab it out one day and think it's dumb, and two months later you suddenly comprehend what you were trying to do with that riff, touch up the rhythm or fix the lead and now you have an epic riff. Also, you can combine riffs and start songs. I go through all of my riffs like a heroine addicted OCD freak, and I may come across two that work together. Voila, you just started putting together a song. Don't get me wrong, a lot of ingenuity goes into this, but it's good to be organized. Never discredit your own ideas. Not even the worst of them.
Secondly, when it comes to the actual brainstorming, another tip is to make sure you never let anything go. Including the stupid ideas. I keep my guitar at my bed if I wake up to a dream of me playing some epic song. I'll put work off for twenty minutes to quickly tab out a last minute idea. Ideas come and go, and you cannot let them escape. Get them down as fast as you can and build up your library of random ideas.
If you're trying to finish up a well rounded song and you can't come up with anything, just stop. Forget everything about music, and do something else. Work on it another day, because by forcing yourself to make inspiration that isn't coming, you're only going to force out low quality ideas. By immediately stopping, your brain will sub-consciously brainstorm different ideas. You may wake up to it, you may get it at the most inconvenient time i.e. class/work, but it will eventually come. As mentioned above, be prepared to write it down.
Thirdly if you have no inspiration, you can always try and force inspiration a little bit for a while. I'll go into my tabbing program and just punch random notes that are in somewhat of a coherent order. I may come up with something, I may realize a neat pattern subconsciously, and touch it up and come up with a new riff. A lot of my material comes from doing this surprisingly, or at least the beginning of them. After that, it all kind of flows afterwards with inspiration and random ideas on how to continue it, a long with random rays of insight to bring in new parts.
Fourthly, my keyboardist from my band does the same thing; tracks all of his ideas thoroughly, regardless whether or not they are great, or suck. I find my best arrangements, or our best arrangements to speak more precisely when we listen to eachother's work and random insight comes in and we touch up our most terrible and random riffs, into our BEST material. Seriously, inspiration is like fire, it just spreads and grows insanely out of control. The idea behind this is synergy; two working minds makes two times the best material, especially when both sides are organized.
Fifthly, and sort of in conjunction with the first tip, if you haven't already, break down ALL of your songs to their separate core riffs. I have come to find that I subconsciously look at my previous written songs as rocks that are immovable. At least, this is my problem; Others might be different. Record/tab the separate riffs from all of your songs, and keep the original separate riffs as you piece them into songs. This way, if a song sucks, its much easier to recycle the good parts back into the cycle without a mind block. This one comes from the great Alexi himself.
Sorry that it was long, and some of this is dumb common sense. I hope it helps though, along with anyone else having writing problems. :/
Heres some tips straight from my old engineering teacher, that I converted into music writing. It's all about brainstorming, and proper ways to do it. They really do help, at least they help me. They might help you, because I thought of the same things mentioned until I took a more technical and organized look at this.
Firstly, perfectionist = bad. Like it was said, no musician is perfect. You shouldn't just keep the "good" ideas, you should keep ANY idea that you get. Literally, every single riff that comes to you out of no where in inspiration, or that you randomly sit there and suddenly figure out, put ALL of it down. Every, SINGLE freaking idea. Even the most stupid sounding ones. It also helps A LOT more to put down your ideas if its recording them, or tabbing them; In fact, this is key to the idea. Programs like Guitar Pro or Tabit are ESPECIALLY helpful in this. Make sure you record/tab any idea that you get, don't rely on your memory. I have a few hundred random riffs lying around, like a library of my mind, organized for my convenient browsing.
The reason why you should keep every single idea, is because any idea has the potential to become a great idea. Even the worst. You can tab it out one day and think it's dumb, and two months later you suddenly comprehend what you were trying to do with that riff, touch up the rhythm or fix the lead and now you have an epic riff. Also, you can combine riffs and start songs. I go through all of my riffs like a heroine addicted OCD freak, and I may come across two that work together. Voila, you just started putting together a song. Don't get me wrong, a lot of ingenuity goes into this, but it's good to be organized. Never discredit your own ideas. Not even the worst of them.
Secondly, when it comes to the actual brainstorming, another tip is to make sure you never let anything go. Including the stupid ideas. I keep my guitar at my bed if I wake up to a dream of me playing some epic song. I'll put work off for twenty minutes to quickly tab out a last minute idea. Ideas come and go, and you cannot let them escape. Get them down as fast as you can and build up your library of random ideas.
If you're trying to finish up a well rounded song and you can't come up with anything, just stop. Forget everything about music, and do something else. Work on it another day, because by forcing yourself to make inspiration that isn't coming, you're only going to force out low quality ideas. By immediately stopping, your brain will sub-consciously brainstorm different ideas. You may wake up to it, you may get it at the most inconvenient time i.e. class/work, but it will eventually come. As mentioned above, be prepared to write it down.
Thirdly if you have no inspiration, you can always try and force inspiration a little bit for a while. I'll go into my tabbing program and just punch random notes that are in somewhat of a coherent order. I may come up with something, I may realize a neat pattern subconsciously, and touch it up and come up with a new riff. A lot of my material comes from doing this surprisingly, or at least the beginning of them. After that, it all kind of flows afterwards with inspiration and random ideas on how to continue it, a long with random rays of insight to bring in new parts.
Fourthly, my keyboardist from my band does the same thing; tracks all of his ideas thoroughly, regardless whether or not they are great, or suck. I find my best arrangements, or our best arrangements to speak more precisely when we listen to eachother's work and random insight comes in and we touch up our most terrible and random riffs, into our BEST material. Seriously, inspiration is like fire, it just spreads and grows insanely out of control. The idea behind this is synergy; two working minds makes two times the best material, especially when both sides are organized.
Fifthly, and sort of in conjunction with the first tip, if you haven't already, break down ALL of your songs to their separate core riffs. I have come to find that I subconsciously look at my previous written songs as rocks that are immovable. At least, this is my problem; Others might be different. Record/tab the separate riffs from all of your songs, and keep the original separate riffs as you piece them into songs. This way, if a song sucks, its much easier to recycle the good parts back into the cycle without a mind block. This one comes from the great Alexi himself.
Sorry that it was long, and some of this is dumb common sense. I hope it helps though, along with anyone else having writing problems. :/
BlackMetalWhiteGuy
Manly Man!
Haha, how did you recognize me?
I second the part about keeping every idea. I started writing music in October 2003 and now my originals folder has 1,035 tabs in it
I second the part about keeping every idea. I started writing music in October 2003 and now my originals folder has 1,035 tabs in it
If the name didn't give it away the avatar certainly did.
I only started keeping track a little more than a year and a half ago, with 8+ years of composition possibilities gone because I never figured out to do this. Still, 200+ riffs is decent in a few year span. :F
I only started keeping track a little more than a year and a half ago, with 8+ years of composition possibilities gone because I never figured out to do this. Still, 200+ riffs is decent in a few year span. :F
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