Mars now!

[Magrathean]

Okay, i don't know how popular this topic is among Dark Tranquillity fans, but i'll give it a try.

The technology to colonize Mars has existed for years, but regrettably the political will hasn't. During the cold war, a lot of space technology was developed by NASA and by whatever space organization the USSR had (i'm unfortunately ignorant on that matter). But since the cold war political leaders have seemed to think there's no need for that anymore.

Now, a lot of ideas have appeared and a lot of scifi books have been written on the colonization of Mars, some better than others (Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy is especially good: well-written, interesting and plausible; but i digress), but nobody seems to be doing anything. At this pace, we'll kill ourselves and make Earth inhospitable before even landing a manned spaceship on Mars.

Anywho, i wanted to know what other people (and smart people, as i never get tired of saying this board has) think of the matter. What are your thoughts/opinions/wishes?

 

[RampageSword]

All I wish for is that we (as in mankind) wake up from our money-indulged sleep and realize we're on the edge of destroying our own planet. The way I see it, mankind is too divided, we cannot move forward because we still argue about nationality and stupid things like patriotism...In my opinion, I hope we reach and colonize that planet if we are truly able to. However, I also hope that if we do, we do not abandon Earth and simply let it die because we've got an issue...Well I'm half-drunk and I'm a blind utopian but that's my two cents for now. I'll update later if I feel the necessity.

 

[opacity]

i'd rather die on earth than elsewhere
and escaping earth to colonize another planet is like shifting weight only. the issues and wars men have among themselves wouldn't disappear on mars or some moon of jupiter or anywhere else.

apart from that, i really don't care where my physical body dies as long as i don't feel too much pain

 

[Cuthalion]

i think that the human race should stay on Earth and die with it (or better yet die and leave Earth alone) becouse even if we could colonize Mars or any other planet, for that matter, we will bring with us all the problems we have here on Earth. And if you add to that the human nature to consume everything around us and our natural arogance it is clear that we are better off not having a planet at all.
Maybe i am a pessimist or maybe i have read too much of Niklas's early In Flames lyrics but i think that i have a point here.

 

[Hitori]

I liked Chronicles of Mars
Ray Bradbury is great

 

[solefald]

what do we want on mars? we have so much problems here and the money what the NASA or ESA or the PROC waste on spaceships and so on would be better used for giving food and peace to all peoples here down on earth.
I like sci-fi but I think colonizing mars is stupid. there is nothing there and we have robots there so why sending astronauts there just to make pics?
and from hollywood I know how mars looks like*g*

just waste of money/time/lives

 

[Siren]

I agree with sole that such a thing requires a lot of money that could be used to solve lots of problems and make millions of lives better. Let's solve our planet's problems first, and then solve the problems of another one.

Besides, to me it seems futile. I'd discuss it if the environment there could sustain human life. But now it seems vain and arrogant to try to change a whole planet or part of it just so we can say we managed to go and live there. What's the point of it? It's once again a human action against nature.

 

[plintus]

We can grow pineapples on Mars - that would be so cool!

Even though the plans for travelling there are kinda interesting, I'm more excited about that Pluto spacecraft they finally launched last week :hotjump:

 

[opacity]

the farther away the better... ah those pineapples again
*votes for "2/3 of mankind shall move to pluto"*
there's so much space..! ;->

 

[Caotico]

I support the spreading of mankind's seed into the universe to 100%:

http://www.redcolony.com

Almost off topic, but listen to Shellac's "Terraform" album if you have the chance. Good stuff!

 

[rammpeth]

i think er should first finish our exploring of earth (in a non destructive fashion). the deepest seas havent been explored, and you never know.also, with just one rocket you send to mars i think for example, my country's whole external and internal debts would be cleared.and its not like i live in the poorest country in the world or anything,but right now all the countries here (central and south america) are turning communist and mostly its due to poverty,lack of opportunities and economical debts.so spend the money on that!

 

[Hitori]

right now all the countries here (central and south america) are turning communist and mostly its due to poverty,lack of opportunities and economical debts.

what?! lol

so spend the money on that!

agreed. or save africa. or... or... or... the list goes on.

 

[plintus]

agreed. or save africa. or... or... or... the list goes on.

That actually crossed my mind, but the country which will be reaching for beyond certainly will have "extra" money for space exploration. Plus - those programs are funded from the government, while care of poverty is taken both by govermentS and charity organizations.

So, it's all quite balanced. If you don't see that... well, I'd recommend start humanitarian help with contraceptives, then

 

[King Chaos]

I dunno... It'd cost alot of money to colonise... A hell of alot, and right now I think we should make public transport better as a priority. Although if earth keeps dying as it is, then yeah, flee to another plannet. It won't happen in our life time, but it will happen (if there isn't somekind of natural disaster or chaos theory thing that wipes us all out)... and to me, that thought is kinda scary.

 

[Magrathean]

Well, i don't think mankind will "abandon Earth" if "we" colonize Mars. Most likely all calls will be made from Earth, all governments will still have bases on Earth, and terran law shall be in effect in Mars. Sad (imo) but true.

Now, perhaps i've been reading too much Kim Stanley Robinson, but i believe we have the technology to make Mars habitable. We can build tented cities and control the climate, temperature and atmosphere inside the tents while we terraform the whole planet. Since there's water ice and CO2 ice in the poles, we will have enough water and fuel to be able to live. Massive plant life will eventually thicken the atmosphere to our required 1000 millibars (one bar) and provide it with the necessary percentage of oxygen (outgas the nitrogen trapped in the soil and you have a nice terran atmosphere). And, as far as the absence of a magnetic field goes, i don't think setting off thermonuclear explosions deep down to melt the rock and separate the crust from the nucleus (sorry for my nigh-complete ignorance on geological terms) is too far off.

Now, some of you mentioned that mankind doesn't deserve another planet or that if we colonize another planet we'll still have to deal with terran problems. As far as the first assessment goes, that's just an ethical issue which will never be solved (just like most other ethical issues). But i do agree with the fact that we'll still have our old terran problems even if we go to Mars (which, again, doesn't mean just transferring the whole population of Earth to Mars, but rather building cities there and colonizing the planet as though it were a newly discovered continent). But the reason for colonizing Mars wouldn't be, of course, to forget about our problems and start anew, but rather to fight the overpopulation and overpollution that Earth is facing. Less people means a cleaner, less crowded planet.

So think about it. We're killing two really big birds with one shot here. I don't think there are too many "better uses" for the money devoted to NASA (which, in my opinion, should be given more funds than it's currently being given). You can't buy peace, and we all know food is at a current shortage on Earth. But take away a third of the population and put it in another planet and then there'll be enough food for the remaining two thirds.

Now, as far as nature goes, there isn't any "nature" in Mars because there isn't any life there (okay, maybe bacteria, but seriously...) and everything that's happened there for the last couple million years (or couple thousand million, i don't quite remember) has been asteroid collisions and volcano eruptions in a completely barren wasteland (and yea, it is a beautiful barren wasteland, but still a barren wasteland).

there is nothing [on Mars] and we have robots there so why sending astronauts there just to make pics?

Wrong. There's water, CO2, nitrogen, and 144.8 million square kilometers of potentially habitable terrain. And what sense does it make to have robots taking pics of the landscape if you're not going to do anything about it? Has NASA wasted good money on robotic Mars missions just for the sake of it?

and from hollywood I know how mars looks like*g*

Sorry, but i really didn't get what you were trying to say there.

And yes, we could grow martian pineapples.

 

[Magrathean]

Thanks for the link (very educational stuff, from the look of it, although i haven't looked at everything) and the music reccommendation (downloading now), Niklas!

 

[Magrathean]

rammpeth: Well, you've got a couple of good points there. It's true that we haven't finished exploring the ocean, and it's also true that some countries have debts that they should pay as soon as they're able to. But i don't see what communism has to do with any of it (for that matter, i don't see why turning communist is a bad thing; on the contrary).

Then again, plintus also has a point. While i don't think charity organizations are really able to take good care of poverty, the countries which will be sending ships to Mars (if it ever happens) will be the ones with extra cash to spend. Again, sad but true. We will have a Mars populated by europeans, australians and north americans (except mexicans). But then there's the bright side, which is that there'd be no poverty (at first, anyway) on Mars.

 

[wildfyr]

I've always wanted to live off-planet. :Spin:

 

[rammpeth]

lets put it this way..poor countries are drowning in external debt, and most of them now have left wing leaders (presidents in venezuela,bolivia,brazil,uruguay,obviously cuba) promote are achieving popular acceptance by saying theyre going to eliminate this debt,,but nevermind this is totally off topic i say save the earth!!!

 

[Magrathean]

I guess we could start another thread called "Socialism/communism/populism".

Back to topic: Well, you know all the efforts that have been / are being made to save the Earth: the nuclear weapons treaty, the Antarctica treaty, Greenpeace... There's tons of organizations, treaties and movements to "save the planet", but none of them seem to actually work. Treaties are being overridden by powerful countries, organizations either aren't getting enough money or aren't putting it to use, and movements aren't getting enough attention. No, i don't think there's enough social or political will to save the Earth. And only a few educated minds know the real danger the planet is in, the real scenario we're facing; most people are either severely misinformed or just plain oblivious to what's going on. I don't think "save the Earth" is a very good alternative to "colonize Mars", since we don't seem capable of actually saving the Earth.