Mars now!

[Magrathean]

Uh, ok, decades of research, planning and several billion dollars of funding for all of it, without so much as a rough idea where they should come from, that's not "one step away" in my book.

Im not a capitalist, more like a realist and reality is that we live in a capitalist society. As long as changing from capitalism to something else isnt a tenth of your "one step", that's a fact you may have to deal with as well in your plans.

Oh, i'm more than willing to deal with it, believe me. I would be a very happy person if capitalism finally took a fall.

The point is that over the last 50 years, only several hundred people were shot into space and you tell me we're one step away of selling bus tickets to Mars for millions? Even you should see the odds of that happening

We're not one step away from selling tickets to millions. We're one step away from building the first tent-towns on Mars. The tickets-for-millions stage comes afterwards. Also, as i imagine it, we wouldn't send tens of millions of people together. Maybe a few thousand at first and then send ships with 10K people each over the years.

We could have built a space station on the moon, just to try out some things but we didnt. It would be a hundred times cheaper than building it on mars, moon soil would be less toxic, we could fly there all the time and not just once every two years, but still, no one is building anything on the moon and do you know why? Because it's fucking expensive and there's nothing to win there.

There's no water on the moon. There's not enough gravity to hold an atmosphere. There's not enough space for it to be a solution for overpopulation. There's nothing but rock, so it's completely infertile. And what's that about less toxic? Just because you (and i mean you, Konrad, not humanity) don't know what the martian soil is made of it doesn't mean that it's toxic. We would be able to fly there far more often than to Mars, and it would be cheaper, i'll give you that, but that's about it.

Yea, yea you've countered everything Ive said because you're too caught up in your dream to see the problem and that's ok really, what I have a problem with is how you sell your dream as a real plan because that's just pathetic.

Uhhh, what problem? That it's too expensive? Or, rather, that you refuse to believe it could happen? That's not a problem, really. And it's really sad that you have a problem with my dream. Like it's bothering you or something. Now, that's pathetic.

 

[La Rocque]

We still have several billion years until that happens though Im sure we'll have found some way to extinct ourselves until then already

You know there is a possibility that we are trapped here on Earth like the fish in the sea because of cosmic rays

I know science will figure everything out
But to quote BOC: "History shows again and again, how nature points up the folly of men"

Why is it that some cosmic rays appear to possess energies that are theoretically too high?
As I remember they were given the scientific name 'Oh-My-God" particles -

 

[Zack]

I just thought of another thing. Wouldn't solar wind obliterate any attempts to create an atmosphere because it would just keep reducing it to the size it is now?

 

[Taliesin]

Naaah, science is gonna up with some Super-Atmosphere-Producers and things are gonna be just fine, you'll see

 

[marduk1507]

In real socialism, everyone starts with the same opportunities but is not paid the same regardless of how hard they work. Hard workers are paid more than average workers, and lazy people aren't paid at all. So yes, there is motivation to work hard.

Sorry Undo, you know I have to do this.

How do you make people start with the same opportunities? Dont you understand that you would first have to create a society with totally equal starting opportunities? And that the only way to do that is the hard way? Yes, I agree that Lenin and Stalin fucked up what Marx said, but they fucked up because they tried to apply Marxs thoughts. Collectivisation - is that the way of creating a society with equal opportunities? Dont you know that it caused huge famine in Russia and millions of people died? And what about those lazy (aka disabled, sick, etc.) ones - who is gonna feed them? The smart and hard working ones? Or are we going to dispose of them, like Hitler did? So much for motivation to work hard in a socialist society. You are wrong, pal, sorry.

 

[La Rocque]

I just thought of another thing. Wouldn't solar wind obliterate any attempts to create an atmosphere because it would just keep reducing it to the size it is now?

I brought that up before(not in this thread) and was given some nonsense reply -

 

[Magrathean]

I just thought of another thing. Wouldn't solar wind obliterate any attempts to create an atmosphere because it would just keep reducing it to the size it is now?

I hadn't thought of this. Hm, i don't know. Let me read more on the subject and come up with an answer. Do you have any bibliography on this?

I brought that up before(not in this thread) and was given some nonsense reply -

Mind providing a link?

How do you make people start with the same opportunities? Dont you understand that you would first have to create a society with totally equal starting opportunities? And that the only way to do that is the hard way? Yes, I agree that Lenin and Stalin fucked up what Marx said, but they fucked up because they tried to apply Marxs thoughts. Collectivisation - is that the way of creating a society with equal opportunities? Dont you know that it caused huge famine in Russia and millions of people died?

If by collectivization you mean the thing about having to stand in line to get even a loaf of bread or som toilet paper, then no, that's just a country run so badly that it's come to famine, extreme poverty and so on. If you mean another thing, then please explain it to me, as i can't answer questions i don't understand. But the way i would create a society with equal opportunities for all on Mars is pretty simple: Start with a few (say, one hundred) colonizers more or less the same age. They build cities and whatnot and establish a small community. Then they form relationships and have children and whatever, but a child that is born may not inherit any material thing from its parents. At first, education would be the responsibility of a subgroup within the original (100) colonizers. Then, as the community grows, it would become the responsibility of a local government (yes, Mars would have to be independent from Earth and it would have to be a single "country", not several) which would provide schools and universities for the population. By having a uniform and free educational system, you avoid a situation where some people know more/different things than others, and by eliminating material inheritance you avoid a situation where some people are born rich and others are born poor (i.e. you eliminate social classes).

If you want to discuss this more, i have more stuff in mind for what would be my ideal society (and yes, i have some weak points / areas which i haven't thought about enough), but i would suggest creating a new thread. But that's my quick answer for you.

And what about those lazy (aka disabled, sick, etc.) ones - who is gonna feed them? The smart and hard working ones? Or are we going to dispose of them, like Hitler did? So much for motivation to work hard in a socialist society. You are wrong, pal, sorry.

Again, i'd rather answer this question on another thread dedicated to ideal societies or whatever than turn the Mars thread into an argument about society and how ethical it is to apply "fascist" methods to create a functional one.

 

[Dark_Silence]

Again, i'd rather answer this question on another thread dedicated to ideal societies

yeah, why not? this could be a good thread

 

[Magrathean]

This link almost made my day. Almost. But, since Mexico and Croatia don't participate, i guess someone-else will have the joy. This is for any person from the list of countries at the end of the page (click on link) who are in favor of colonizing Mars. Good luck.

 

[afz902k]

Interesting.

 

[Kovenant84]

This link almost made my day. Almost. But, since Mexico and Croatia don't participate, i guess someone-else will have the joy. This is for any person from the list of countries at the end of the page (click on link) who are in favor of colonizing Mars. Good luck.

I was about to ask when we'd see your picture there, but then re-read your post.

And damn, that's the most hardcore looking bunch of researchers I've ever seen. The rifle was a nice touch.

~kov.

Edit: It almost looks like the stereotypical "bunch of rough-and-tumble researchers banded together by impending space disaster, so we'll train them in a week and send them up there."

 

[plintus]

I would ship Pampers' ass to Mars.