How does everybody feel about the JCM2000's for getting a good recorded sound? I have wanted an Engl for a very long time, but haven't ever had a chance to try one, and everybody saying they are a bit scooped in the mids kinda puts me off from them. How would they compare to, say, a 5150, when mic'd up? I believe Nile's "Annihilation of the Wicked" was done with a DSL and it is one of my favourite guitar sounds.
Marshall JCM2000 DSL for recording?
- Thread starter The ORIGINAL South Of Heaven
- Start date
KeithRT99
BOOSH.
i hate the sound of a dsl for metal, the gain is pretty sloppy. The only redeeming qualities of the dsl are its clean and rock tones.
batlas
Member
My band used my DSL2000 Stack for a whole record....the results were allright. nothing phenomenol. As far as i know the only "Metal" band that uses the DSL is Trivium, not sure that they used it on recording but the riffage on Ascendancy is pretty tight. Ahh and british band Beecher uses the TSL and they have a pretty weird sound on their new record.
Ive gotten some ok results with a tubescreamer in front.
Ive gotten some ok results with a tubescreamer in front.
Im planning on using my Voodoo Modded TSL for our upcoming album, with a Mesa Recto cab with vintage 30's. I have JJ e34L's not standard EL34's, tubes in the power section and they really help fill out the low mids and give the amp more headroom. With the tubes in there along with the mods the thing roars...It really nails brutal metal well, and the clean is amazingly good, probably the best marshall clean i've heard. You gotta boost it and gate it though for sure.... Im using a Keeley modded sd-1 as a clean boost, and a ISP decimator noise gate and it's a real beast.....
MilkAndCheese said:
yea that sounds pretty nasty... trick is keep the gain low on the tsl and dsl's i couldnt see the gain higher than 3.5 - 4 with a clean boost ....before i had mine modded It def would get sloppy if i had it higher than that too..
kaomao
Member
MilkAndCheese said:
something recorded can be so good, but live can sound like shit.
Sound of perseverence and symbolic is an old valvestate, the sound is really good on those records (not as good as a dual recto imho), the old valvestate series were so good, anyway live they sound like shit.
Maurizio
nothing wrong with the jcm2000 line. the other guitar player in my band uses the tsl100, sounds decent. similar to the jmp1/ el34 100:100 setup. the trick for a tight metal rhythm sound is to use the crunch channel for rhythm. the lead channel indeed is kinda sloppy and harsh, so i can see why most guys (who likely skip the crunch channel for metal) say it's crap.
as for the dsl100, i used one for 20 shows during an euro tour. for a slayer meets the haunted like rhythm tone, use high output pickups, the lower gain mode of the lead channel, and don't turn the gain past 6-7. lets see if i can recall my tour settings....
presence was almost off, like 1 or something, just enough to give it a certain sizzle and edge. bass around 8, mids halfway up, treble anywhere between 3 and 5, gain around 6 1/2, tone shift and deep off, master around 4-5 depending on the venue. i mostly used an emg81 loaded jackson straight in, going through a marshall 1960 a/b fullstack. i kinda wish i'd own that setup, actually i can't recall how often i wished to own a jcm2000.
the tsl100 crunch channel is a bit darker, that's basically the whole difference imho. keep in mind, that's not very saturated, so all the mistakes will shine through. i keep my gain pretty low anyways, so i'm used to it, and therefore i assume that sound will work just fine in a recording session.
i'd use it for anything up to speed/thrash metal....anything heavier than that (swede death, death, black, grind) go get something different. although it might get there with a good stomp in front, as i said i never tried that, went straight in all the time.
if you need to go heavier than that, check out the 5150. it can get kinda dsl-esque using the crunch channel (gain around noon) boosted with an sd1 to keep the lows in check and to add some bite, plus you got the lead channel for a lead boost or the ultra heavy stuff. in general, the dsl is gonna be darker and more midrangey, it has that classic marshall midrange grind which you either love or hate - i love it.
sorry for the long post. i just cannot understand all those "dsl/tsl sucks donkey balls" comments. they might not be my first choice, esp. as they're a bit overpriced IMHO (a brand new dsl is like 1100 euro iirc, i'd not pay any more than 800), but you can definitely get them to sound decent without much effort - depending on the sound you're going for
as for the dsl100, i used one for 20 shows during an euro tour. for a slayer meets the haunted like rhythm tone, use high output pickups, the lower gain mode of the lead channel, and don't turn the gain past 6-7. lets see if i can recall my tour settings....
presence was almost off, like 1 or something, just enough to give it a certain sizzle and edge. bass around 8, mids halfway up, treble anywhere between 3 and 5, gain around 6 1/2, tone shift and deep off, master around 4-5 depending on the venue. i mostly used an emg81 loaded jackson straight in, going through a marshall 1960 a/b fullstack. i kinda wish i'd own that setup, actually i can't recall how often i wished to own a jcm2000.
the tsl100 crunch channel is a bit darker, that's basically the whole difference imho. keep in mind, that's not very saturated, so all the mistakes will shine through. i keep my gain pretty low anyways, so i'm used to it, and therefore i assume that sound will work just fine in a recording session.
i'd use it for anything up to speed/thrash metal....anything heavier than that (swede death, death, black, grind) go get something different. although it might get there with a good stomp in front, as i said i never tried that, went straight in all the time.
if you need to go heavier than that, check out the 5150. it can get kinda dsl-esque using the crunch channel (gain around noon) boosted with an sd1 to keep the lows in check and to add some bite, plus you got the lead channel for a lead boost or the ultra heavy stuff. in general, the dsl is gonna be darker and more midrangey, it has that classic marshall midrange grind which you either love or hate - i love it.
sorry for the long post. i just cannot understand all those "dsl/tsl sucks donkey balls" comments. they might not be my first choice, esp. as they're a bit overpriced IMHO (a brand new dsl is like 1100 euro iirc, i'd not pay any more than 800), but you can definitely get them to sound decent without much effort - depending on the sound you're going for
NK
Complete Bastard
kaomao
Member
MilkAndCheese said:
Ok!
but if the guy want to use it live then he will have an amp that doesn't slay as a dual or a 5150.
A lot of people has done, with poor equipment, great recordings, but anyway if you use a bad amp as a valvestate and obtain a great recording don't expect a killer amp when you'll use it live.
I think is better having a good amp that can slay both live and in the studio.
Maurizio
KeithRT99
BOOSH.
i just listened to AOTW by nile and it definately sounds like a dsl. it has the trademark fizziness to it, but it sounds decent.
i personally feel most stock JCM2000 amps are a joke really, i'd suggest setting the bias slightly colder, to like from 45MV to 40MV on the DSL50/TSL60 and like from 90MV to 80MV on the DSL100/TSL100.
That's supposed to fatten up the tone and kill the fizz, altho i think DSLs/TSLs aren't really what i'd call a metal amp, well not without a boost, slayer style!
That's supposed to fatten up the tone and kill the fizz, altho i think DSLs/TSLs aren't really what i'd call a metal amp, well not without a boost, slayer style!
MKS said:The ORIGINAL South Of Heaven said:favourite QUOTE]
WTF? You're not British!!
All my ancestors are!
Exocaster
Nozzle
- Aug 29, 2005
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They sound fine. Keep the mids up, treble and presence fairly low, the gain at a moderate level, and turn up. Loud. Really loud. Try using a cab with Vintage 30s, too. They're not fizzy at all if they're set up right.
I used the following settings on a JCM 2000 TSL 60 watt head, and they worked just fine for metal. Tight and percussive. Fairly dark too. Note these EQ settings sound pretty ass at low volumes.
Treble- 3-4, Mids 8-10, Bass 6, Presence 0-2, Gain 6, Channel Volume 10, Master Volume 6, Tone shift and deep both off. Marshall 1960AV cab. ESP Eclipse with Duncan Custom 5 (bridge), tuned C# standard.
Biasing the JCM 2000 series is stupid simple. There's a pot and test points for a multimeter right there, no special equipment is needed. Try JJ ECC83s in the preamp; they fatten up the sound a great deal. They'll definitely darken the tone and eliminate fizz, too. JJ and SED EL34s are a good choice for the power amp.
I used the following settings on a JCM 2000 TSL 60 watt head, and they worked just fine for metal. Tight and percussive. Fairly dark too. Note these EQ settings sound pretty ass at low volumes.
Treble- 3-4, Mids 8-10, Bass 6, Presence 0-2, Gain 6, Channel Volume 10, Master Volume 6, Tone shift and deep both off. Marshall 1960AV cab. ESP Eclipse with Duncan Custom 5 (bridge), tuned C# standard.
Biasing the JCM 2000 series is stupid simple. There's a pot and test points for a multimeter right there, no special equipment is needed. Try JJ ECC83s in the preamp; they fatten up the sound a great deal. They'll definitely darken the tone and eliminate fizz, too. JJ and SED EL34s are a good choice for the power amp.
basically what i said exocaster. the more you can crank the amp, the less treble should be dialed in.
if you ever get the chance to crank the amp way up (i was able to do so for at least 3 shows), crank the bass and mids, treble almost off, like around 1, presence off, gain 7, toneshift and deep both off. sounds kickass, i promise. the mids and speaker breakup will make up for all of the highend loss, and you'll cut through like crazy while retaining amazing note definition. trust me, i've used these settings several times, with GREAT results.
if you ever get the chance to crank the amp way up (i was able to do so for at least 3 shows), crank the bass and mids, treble almost off, like around 1, presence off, gain 7, toneshift and deep both off. sounds kickass, i promise. the mids and speaker breakup will make up for all of the highend loss, and you'll cut through like crazy while retaining amazing note definition. trust me, i've used these settings several times, with GREAT results.
AB it with a krank/5150/recto for a great metal tone and start pointing and laughing at the Marshall as it's totally ghey hehe
hehei played several rectos, and currently i own a 5150. they're different, but not better.
maybe you just don't like the marshall tone in general. i can see that for certain styles such as brutal death metal as well as nu metal a marshall isn't exactly the first choice.
maybe you just don't like the marshall tone in general. i can see that for certain styles such as brutal death metal as well as nu metal a marshall isn't exactly the first choice.
Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral
we are children of god
just rebiased my DSL to around 38mv and it's sounded a LOT better to my ears.
thanks for the tips guys
thanks for the tips guys
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