Melodic scales

[Leper_/-\ffinity]

Ok, lately I have been very frustrated, because of my songwriting never pleasing me enough. By this I mean that my choice of notes sounds fine, but I am not satisfied with it, in terms of riffs, and harmony type of stuff. I would love to get the kind of melodies that Opeth got on their early stuff like Orchid/Morningrise, and another band that I find has great melodies and a great melodic sense is In Flames, specifically on the album The Jester Race. So what kind of scales are they using to achieve this melodic, yet sad sound with their music?? Im used to playing in the modes, and sometimes I play some harmonic minor, but that sounds too evil sometimes. So are there any specific scales/intervals I should look into to reach what I am looking for?? Hope some fellow UMers can help me out here, because I would really appreciate it.

 

[Pita Bread]

Opeth - Improvise, Improvise, Improvise!

In Flames - E minor scale (in the key of C). They harmonize in octaves, and 3rd's.
A few pointers about In Flames:
- 3 guitars per song usually. 1 rhythm, 2 lead (harmonies, etc);
- The intro lead for Dead Eternity is almost entirely in 3rds;
- Rhythm harmony for the verse of Dead Eternity is composed of one guitar playing a power chord, and another guitar playing single notes a 3rd above the power chord.
- December Flower's intro has one guitar playing root notes, and a 2nd guitar that plays the root notes and melody line.
-Try using a power chord (root 5th chord) play it a few times, and then raise the 5th up a half step; this creates a bit of tension, and is also used in many In Flames songs.

I'm not sure how else to help you, writing harmonies comes easy for me (of course I'm also Asian, and have years of classical music training on piano). You have to develop your own melodic sense. Try listening to many genres other than metal, and try to improvise leads over them. Jamming also helps, 'cause it's easier to compose an acompanyment for a riff while another guitarist is playing your riff. I've been straying away from standard "two-guitar harmony in 3rds" lines lately, because they get old real quick, and it seems as if everyone uses them nowadays.

If you could upload some samples of your riffs, I might be able to give you some more pointers.

-Peter

 

[Pita Bread]

Oh yea, everytime you hear a melody in your head, transpose it to guitar, immediately!

 

[Leper_/-\ffinity]

Shit man, thanks. Improvising is almost all I do, but I can never get those badass Opeth lines.

About the In Flames thing, thanks for all of the info.

 

[Pita Bread]

No problemo

I'm not sure how Mike from Opeth does it either, he doesn't adhere to any scale that we know of. He's just a friggen musical genius.

 

[Creeping Death]

So, invent a new scale, hah. Mike's scale. Synthetic Scales are created all the time, sometimes people feel a flat here and there, or a sharp, make a note better, and mess around.

 

[Heavymetal_Hellmaster]

I think a good way to make more really mellow melodies is to use Major scales, and i think a good way to make different music is to use many different keys. Most of rock and metal is usually in A or E, try something like C# and F#.

 

[Creeping Death]

yeah, but not out of major, major is an upbeat type scale. Minor works better.

 

[fadingessence]

I don't think you can "try" to play like opeth. You can use the same chords, try to use similar notes, but in the end Opeth = Mikael and thats that. The guy really is a genious, especially since he has no training at all.

Makes an interesting contrast between what knowing theory or not does for extreme metal, Emperor being a good opposite example. Opeth is a lot more free and emotional, but Prometheus is classical theory taken to a new level.

I should add though that Morningrise is by far the easier Opeth style to write, at least for me. It uses very similar scale ideas all throughout.

 

[Pita Bread]

Scales are a good starting point. Of course playing by ear will give you a more original sound that is true to you, but scales are still a valuable resource for songwriting, especially if you need to connect segments of a song, or if you just feel like blowing people with an insanely fast run

I also tend to use accidentals (off scale notes) in my riffs/solos, which add more flavor and tension.

 

[Creeping Death]

Yeah, and if you want a boring style, do what Petrucci does. no offense to petruccietes

 

[-Gavin-]

can someone pelase tba out the major and minor scales for D

(for a guitar tuned in DCGFAD)

thanks.

 

[Pita Bread]

Minor shape

|-------------------------------2-3-5--
|-------------------------1-3-5--------
|-------------------0-2-4--------------
|-------------0-2-4--------------------
|-------0-2-3--------------------------
|-0-2-3--------------------------------


Major shape

|-------------------------------2-4-5--
|-------------------------2-4-5--------
|-------------------1-2-4--------------
|-------------1-2-4--------------------
|-------0-2-4--------------------------
|-0-2-4--------------------------------

 

[Feanor IV]

Well, guys, I'm not so sure that Mikael (from Opeth) has the same opinion you have on his own songs. I mean, I don't know if you can adore one of your songs as much as you love songs which you have heard from other artists. Other than that, I think the best way to develop a personal style is 1) listen to anything you like (this means that if you like 20 different genres, listen to them all, if you don't like them don't do it just to play it cool) 2) practice a lot. It may sound strange to someone who doesn't compose, but if you stop composing for a year you will need time to be back in shape again. You just can't turn your thoughts/feelings into songs easily, if you're not experienced.

As for major/minor scales, I also prefer the minor sound, however artists who use it too extensively are typically borring. Try using major, minor and any other scale you like. To try analize songs you like, to see how the composer produced the effect you like. If you like a chord transition try to see what the relation between the two chords is. If you get familiar with it, it will eventually start to appear in your music not on purpose, while improvising.

And I also agree on the accidentals thing, try to have variety add sharps and flats everywhere and see how it sounds! Example: if you have written a riff which ends in A try playing the same riff and end it in Ab or A#. Or change other notes within the riff to make it sound better while ending in Ab or A#. Ending in such a note (when the normal riff ends to A) will actually mean you've changed scales and thus you will need a different chord to back the change. The result could be great (or disastrous). Try it

 

[Leper_/-\ffinity]

^^^Great advice, thanks

 

[the alumnus]

if you know what you are doing you can make d major sound sad, as shostakovich did in his string quartet #4. maybe try the hungarian scale, it has two tritones and an augmented second.

right now i'm working around on an octatonic scale that seems to be of my own design. we'll see how it goes.

 

[Feanor IV]

Aaaaah, btw, forgot to say: In Flames use lots of dual leads (as Pita Bread already pointed out) using lots of 5ths or 3rds to harmonise them. This is a typical rock (metal included) harmony, and is also probably the most used harmony in the history of music This is because and because of this (both apply) it's the easiest for untrained ears to understand. Moreover, if you sing a second voice over a song you like, you will typically do it in 3rds............

 

[Feanor IV]

if you know what you are doing you can make d major sound sad, as shostakovich did in his string quartet #4. maybe try the hungarian scale, it has two tritones and an augmented second.

Couldn't agree more with this statement!! You can have a happy melody and make it sound not only sad but DESPERATE if you arrange it in a sad away. And the opposite...... In general, look around the net, or (even better) find someone and take harmony lessons. Doing so was one of the best decisions in my life.

And to avoid conversations like "theory kills feeling", I'll just say a big "NO". Learning theory will help you express yourself. It's like having the picture of a beautiful landscape in your head. But you can't paint it!! You need to know and have experience to put what's in your head in notes. And this is where theory comes in.

 

[wartorn2112]

there's modes where you play the notes ABCDEFGA BCDEFGAB CDEFGABC, and so on without accidentals.

The best mode is basically minor,

But melodic minor, you are "allowed" to raise the 6th and 7th notes of the scale and thus use more notes, and have more options.


This explains it better.
http://www.torvund.net/guitar/Theory/27-Melodic_minor.asp

 

[Akronaes]

Oh yea, everytime you hear a melody in your head, transpose it to guitar, immediately!

Carrying around a small handheld tape recorder (or in light of new technology, a digital voice recorder) and whenever a riff pops into your head, dictate it into the recorder. It sounds ridiculous, especially vocalizing guitar riffs (trust me, ive gotten a few strange looks at school), but it really helps in remembering that little riff that you know you're going to forget in half an hour.