Mendel's Question Topic

[Mendel]

Here we go.

The standard problem to most of the people is the want a mix loud.
My question to you is:

When my mix is low volume it sounds good, not to compressed.
But when i play it and then listen to for an example genesis from job for a cowboy my speakers blast out because that album is way more loud then my own mix.

When i put my mix louder and try to keep everything in balance it sounds at the same volume, but it is too compressed etc. And i know some of you think: why everything louder ?!??! the quality is way more important.

so my question is:

How can i get a mix at the same audio level like sneap's albums, but without have everything cracking and pumped like As Blood Runs Black's album allegiance

Question to:

My master of puppets cover is pretty good on volume compared with genesis or shadows are security. Is it to compressed now ?

check it @: www.myspace.com/mendelb

what are your tips then ? to get a mix at a good volume, but not too cracking etc.

 

[Mendel]

Question 3:

Their have been lot's of discussions about this but i never got a clear answer.
Cubase 4 costs 899 euro's or something, and Nuendo 3 costs 1799,- euro's.

What are the major differences then between Neundo 3 and Cubase ( 3 )?
I have used both and i never got to come across major differences.

1 thing i know is that nuendo can accept cubase files but not reversed.
What does Nuendo make it almost 1000 cost more then cubase ?

I know it is more for film producing but what are the major differences then ?

 

[Torniojaws]

How can i get a mix at the same audio level like sneap's albums, but without have everything cracking and pumped like As Blood Runs Black's album allegiance

The answer is in physics and human anatomy.

Basically:

Low frequencies need more volume to sound loud, although the RMS goes up a lot (read: bad for compressors/limiters when it comes to maximizing loudness)
Mid frequencies are best heard by the human ear (the exact frequencies are 1 kHz to 5 kHz)
High frequencies are inbetween but don't need much "volume" (volume as in amount, not loudness)

Someone also talked about the bus full of people in a phone booth, and it pretty much sums it up. There are all kinds of people in a bus, from fat to tall to thin to regular size, maybe one really short guy that has something important to say. Now, you have to fit that busfull of people into that phone booth and minimizing the amount of deaths and dismemberments

That is, the amount of audio information you can have in a song is finite, so you will always have to slice 'n' dice something. Now the interesting part is that even though the human ear hears the low frequencies a whole lot worse than those mid frequencies (1-5 kHz), the RMS of them is actually the exact reverse of that. That is, if you have a say bass playing low E (41,2 Hz), it will have an RMS of let's say -9 dB and slider volume at -2 dB (not absolute values, these are just for the example). Now, take a guitar that plays the low E (82,41 Hz) too, but it has an RMS of -12 dB and slider volume at -2 dB. Both of them will probably sound equally loud, even though their RMS level is a whole 3 dB apart! That's how the human ear works, and that's the key to loudness.

So a really short sum:

Try to place as much stuff as possible in the 1 - 5 kHz range, and pull down the level of those low frequencies as much as possible! That way you get the most bang for buck per RMS.

Here's a spectrum view that should explain it:

The lower the graph, the less volume you need for it to be heard. Pay attention to the low frequencies. They're bad for maximizing, mmkay?

Now, to actually do that is a whole different animal

1 thing i know is that nuendo can accept cubase files but not reversed.

Cubase does accept Nuendo files, just rename .npr to .cbr At least it works with SX3 and Nuendo 3.

I know it is more for film producing but what are the major differences then ?

Nuendo supports multichannel mixing and has lots more video synching etc stuff.

 

[Mendel]

Thank you !!

 

[Pot]

I´d say calibrate your monitors and studio levels and decide at which level u do your thing... i supose u allredy know this.

if u dont check tha link

http://www.abluesky.com/asp/catalogue/catalogue.asp?linkid=143

 

[Scherprechter]

Hey Mendel, Gitaro from Gitaarnet here, Master of Puppets sounds great!

 

[KillDivision]

Hey Gitaro, here Iceman from Gitaarnet.
Are you both going to the Gitaarnetmeeting in Almere?
I'll be bringing my Diezel VH4 along.

 

[Mendel]

Dudes wtf, i didnt know anything of a meeting ?

 

[AStacy2]

Try to make your mix as flat as possible, make sure your snare/kick aren't eating up 6db of headroom just because your want it to be loud. Notch out the frequencies that you want to be heard in the snare from the guiatar/bass/vox ect. Don't be afraid to boost with your EQ either, it can help too.


When you go to do you own mastering, check your mix to see if it's flat in Har-Bal or something, if it's not go fix your actual mix, don't fix it with Har-Bal. Once you have a good mix use some EQ to cut off everything below 20-30hz and above 20000hz, check out PSP Neon HR, it's a good mastering EQ. A build up of lower bass frequencies tend to not let you get as much volume. Try using your compressor with faster/attack and release times to make the mix more exciting, check out PSP Mastercomp. Keep in mind about percieved loudness as well. Check out Sonnox Inflator, it helps do this with the effect fader. And use a good limiter like Sonnox too.


If you keep all that in mind, I think you'll be turning your masters down because you realize you can make them WAY louder than you need to. After all, who really cares how loud your mix is if it sounds terrible when presented like that? Listen to an old CD every once in a while to give you some perspective on why all of the older stuff that's not compressed to death can sound so good.

 

[JBroll]

"Getting Your Loudness" covered just about all of this months back, anyone know where it went?

Jeff

 

[KeithRT99]

that master of pupperts cover is awesome. it sounds really cool.

 

[abyssofdreams]

"Getting Your Loudness" covered just about all of this months back, anyone know where it went?

Jeff

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap/278894-getting-your-loudness.html