mesa valve question
- Thread starter Tachy
- Start date
I guess you shouldn't worry about the bias, as long as the Sovteks you used for replacement are also 6L6.
Omega_Void
Your Eventual Destroyer
Since you say they work, i assume you've fired it up then....
The bias (almost certainly) won't be "correct" unless the Sovtek's happen to have the same gain as those selected for Mesa branding. But (within limits) that only changes the sound character a bit.
Look at the valves, if the anode plates in the tubes are glowing red the bias is too hot. Switch off immediately if you see that!
I'm told Mesa bias the amps very cold, and select tubes with higher-than-average gain. Which is the sensible way to do it since it means in an emergency you can plug almost any tube of the same type and not experience a meltdown. Using tubes other than Mesa-branded does void your warranty though.
If the bias is too cold it does no harm, it just increases crossover distortion. It's a kind of "ripping" type of element in the sound, some folks like more of it than others. Too much will sound awful.
IME Sovtek tubes sound pretty ratty anyway, though.
The bias (almost certainly) won't be "correct" unless the Sovtek's happen to have the same gain as those selected for Mesa branding. But (within limits) that only changes the sound character a bit.
Look at the valves, if the anode plates in the tubes are glowing red the bias is too hot. Switch off immediately if you see that!
I'm told Mesa bias the amps very cold, and select tubes with higher-than-average gain. Which is the sensible way to do it since it means in an emergency you can plug almost any tube of the same type and not experience a meltdown. Using tubes other than Mesa-branded does void your warranty though.
If the bias is too cold it does no harm, it just increases crossover distortion. It's a kind of "ripping" type of element in the sound, some folks like more of it than others. Too much will sound awful.
IME Sovtek tubes sound pretty ratty anyway, though.
-Loco-
Knives.
- Apr 17, 2009
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I had an official mesa tech look at my amp and he replaced the pre-amp with a Ruby, so i'm not sure if the replacement only applies to power amp or not. They want you to buy their own tubes because they are mesa 
and like big wallets. I think you'll be safe man
and like big wallets. I think you'll be safe man
Mikaël-ange
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- Nov 7, 2008
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You don't need to bias your amp but you need to put a same grade tube than older you have on it. Lot of tube seller can do this (Eurotube withh JJ tube for exemple).
lolzgreg
Cereal Shipping Sneapster
Okay, some words about tubes.
I am friends with some of the most knowledgable engineers in New York state who deal with amplifiers and pro audio equipment. They let me know "what's running well."
Mesa tubes are rebranded chinese shit OR their better tubes are "run of the mill" (i.e. barely acceptable) Sovteks that are rebranded.
Your best bet right now is a set of Platinum Matched Sovtek 5881's for your Recto.
I would not go with JJ's for your power section, though their preamp tubes are pretty nice.
I recommend EH 12AX7's or JJ ECC-83's.
I am friends with some of the most knowledgable engineers in New York state who deal with amplifiers and pro audio equipment. They let me know "what's running well."
Mesa tubes are rebranded chinese shit OR their better tubes are "run of the mill" (i.e. barely acceptable) Sovteks that are rebranded.
Your best bet right now is a set of Platinum Matched Sovtek 5881's for your Recto.
I would not go with JJ's for your power section, though their preamp tubes are pretty nice.
I recommend EH 12AX7's or JJ ECC-83's.
lolzgreg
Cereal Shipping Sneapster
They're similar, but are machined differently.
The tube you're looking for is the Sovtek 5881WXT.
The tube you're looking for is the Sovtek 5881WXT.
Greg, I know those dudes who mod your amps really like Sovteks, but do they really feel they're better than (rather than just as good as) SED, Tung-Sol, etc.? I mean, I'm not doubting these guys, I just also have always kinda felt the differences between tubes is kinda overstated (between my own personal experimentation, as well as the fact that so many clips of the same amps sound pretty similar, because of course the tone stack and whatnot is the same, so even though there are almost certainly different tubes in them, the difference those tubes make in tone is negligible). I'm not really certain as to the differences between 6L6's and 5881's myself, but I know 6L6's come stock in Rectifiers and I've certainly liked how they've sounded! 
(and I mention that because of course the OP is talking about tubes for his Dual Rec)
FWIW, if you're on a budget, my vote is Ruby 6L6's; I have a quad of their EL34's that seem well-made and have worked well (though admittedly they didn't get nearly as much use in my Dual Rec as my Winged C 6L6's), and as I mentioned in another thread, Doug seems to think rather highly of them:
(and I mention that because of course the OP is talking about tubes for his Dual Rec)FWIW, if you're on a budget, my vote is Ruby 6L6's; I have a quad of their EL34's that seem well-made and have worked well (though admittedly they didn't get nearly as much use in my Dual Rec as my Winged C 6L6's), and as I mentioned in another thread, Doug seems to think rather highly of them:
Doug said:
lolzgreg
Cereal Shipping Sneapster
The dudes who mod my amp have been in this business for much longer than most (they're approaching their fifties and sixties). They know that when it comes to modding/improving the tonality of my amplifiers, budget is never a road-block. I asked them what's the best?
What makes a good tube?
I would say the following.
a. RELIABILITY- If it only lasts two months, well, it sucks! Who buys a lightbulb to change it every eight weeks?
b. CONSTRUCTION- Some tubes are made better than others. For example, JJ ECC-83's are some of the better 12AX7's around these days. ENGL Amplification purchases second rate (i.e. rejected) 12AX7's from JJ and rebrands them. My dudes at the shop removed 5 microphonic 12AX7's from a nearly new non-abused Powerball. The tubes were so shitty that the internal plates were HITTING the side of the glass.
FYI: Any amplifier manufacturer who purchases tubes is simply buying second rate pieces of shit from other companies and rebranding (Mesa buys chinese-made Sovtek rejects, Peavey buys RUBY for the lower end amps which are all shitty rebrands (my friend at the shop used to deal with RUBY several years ago when they actually had pride in their work, then his friends over at Sovtek let him in on the secret).
Just because a particular brand of tube or model of tube is good when you bought is two years ago doesn't mean it is today (unless you're getting NOS). What happens is this: The company sets up their machines to manufacture tubes. All of the resistances of the machinery are set up with exacting specs. They are calibrated wonderfully and tool heads are new and sharp and ready to put out some great tubes. (The Sovtek 12AX7LPS, is the tube I'm talking about now). These tubes came stock in my Peavey 5150 II when I got in when I got it five years ago. I asked about replacement and my friends told me that these were the best high-gain 12AX7's around now: low noise, reliable and had great harmonics. I stuck with them. I haven't had any issues with my tubes. Now, several years down the line, the company is using those same tool-heads and the machines have been left lax to just keep producing and producing (everyone has a quota, you know?). The tubes were "great" when I got them, but they aren't anymore. Just 'cause Gibson guitars were awesome 30 years ago doesn't mean they are now (oh are they built shittily).
Business is business and the name matters a lot of the time.
C. TONALITY: The honest to God truth is, TUBES AREN'T THATTTT MUCH DIFFERENT. Your preamp tube choices will make a bigger difference than your power amp and last longer, so you're in good shape in that regards.
As I mentioned above, RUBY's are rebranded shit. Wouldn't go near 'em with a 10 foot pole.
My recommendations:
Preamp:
Electro-Harmonics 12AX7's (which are also rebranded tubes BUT PREMIUM ONES)
JJ/Tesla ECC-83 (these are running well now, but they are approaching the end of their lifespan- as I mentioned above)
JAN/Phillips 12AT7 (NOS tubes, I had mine cleaning up my 5150 II's clean channel for 5 years. Still sounds amazing).
Poweramp:
Sovtek 5881WXT- The only ones I use
Winged "C" (SED) EL34's- Marcus was dead on with these.
MULLARD EL34's- (NOS) Great tubes, but cost loot.
Svetlana 6550's- Got these in my Rocktron, tightest poweramp around.
Cool dude, interesting info, and the insights make sense! And at least those dudes don't hate on Winged C's, so I'll just keep sticking with those 
(and the Shuguang 9th gen/Penta Labs 12AX7's have worked great for me as well, and I like the tone of them better than Tung Sol or JJ, but again, very subtle differences)
(and the Shuguang 9th gen/Penta Labs 12AX7's have worked great for me as well, and I like the tone of them better than Tung Sol or JJ, but again, very subtle differences)
Mikaël-ange
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Lot og good info but have you already use Svetlana (C and S not winged, I haven't lot of experience with winged C to say something about this) or Mullard (new made by EH)?
drew_drummer
Dancefap
I've got NOS JJ's in my Laney VH100R. Cost me £150 for a whole set of pre and power tubes+labour.... but it was bloody worth it. The amp sounds quite a bit different now. Still quite noisy (VH100R's tend to be noisy amps) but it sounds fucking lush.
