mesa valve question

[Mikaël-ange]

The 6L6's that were in the Dual Rec I sent you were winged C's dude

I edit my post after see mistake

 

[Pot]

BIG THX for the insight Lolzgreg

 

[lolzgreg]

No problem, Pot. We gotta keep the info flowing.

 

[::XeS::]

Recently I bought a pretty new 6505+. Today I checked out the preamp tubes and it has:

Sovtek 12ax7LPS | Sovtek 12ax7LPS | JJ ECC83 | JJ ECC83 | JJ ECC83 | JJ ECC83

(And 4 RUBY 6L6)

I noticed that the last 2 tubes (the 2 Sovtek I suppose, because they are the farther from the input) have no light inside the bulbs wheres the other 4 have normal light inside. Is it normal?

 

[laurens]

Although this has usefull information, I have to ask: why would a company like Mesa (or Engl for that matter), which is going for the best tone possible, use "second rate shit" as you call it?

I have had several amps from Engl and never had any bad preamp. You make a lot of bold statements saying that Engl would buy rejected JJ's. And at the end you recommend JJ's. I would not buy anything from a company that sells rejected shit. So this doesn't make sense to me.

Recently I had to retube my Mesa 2:90 and Studio preamp. So I asked around a bit (also because of the fixed bias). It seems that Mesa has used several brands throughout the years. For a reference point I put new Mesa branded tubes in them. The (very) old powertubes were Sovtek 6l6GC's, can't find them anymore over here, but I like the Mesa branded better as they sound less boomy to me. The difference was significant. Can't tell you about the preamps yet because I'm still experimenting. Gonna try a Tung Sol soon in the V1.

The whole rebranding thing and consistency over the years leaves you with trial and error really. So yeah, all experience is welcome here.

The dudes who mod my amp have been in this business for much longer than most (they're approaching their fifties and sixties). They know that when it comes to modding/improving the tonality of my amplifiers, budget is never a road-block. I asked them what's the best?

What makes a good tube?

I would say the following.
a. RELIABILITY- If it only lasts two months, well, it sucks! Who buys a lightbulb to change it every eight weeks?

b. CONSTRUCTION- Some tubes are made better than others. For example, JJ ECC-83's are some of the better 12AX7's around these days. ENGL Amplification purchases second rate (i.e. rejected) 12AX7's from JJ and rebrands them. My dudes at the shop removed 5 microphonic 12AX7's from a nearly new non-abused Powerball. The tubes were so shitty that the internal plates were HITTING the side of the glass.

FYI: Any amplifier manufacturer who purchases tubes is simply buying second rate pieces of shit from other companies and rebranding (Mesa buys chinese-made Sovtek rejects, Peavey buys RUBY for the lower end amps which are all shitty rebrands (my friend at the shop used to deal with RUBY several years ago when they actually had pride in their work, then his friends over at Sovtek let him in on the secret).

Just because a particular brand of tube or model of tube is good when you bought is two years ago doesn't mean it is today (unless you're getting NOS). What happens is this: The company sets up their machines to manufacture tubes. All of the resistances of the machinery are set up with exacting specs. They are calibrated wonderfully and tool heads are new and sharp and ready to put out some great tubes. (The Sovtek 12AX7LPS, is the tube I'm talking about now). These tubes came stock in my Peavey 5150 II when I got in when I got it five years ago. I asked about replacement and my friends told me that these were the best high-gain 12AX7's around now: low noise, reliable and had great harmonics. I stuck with them. I haven't had any issues with my tubes. Now, several years down the line, the company is using those same tool-heads and the machines have been left lax to just keep producing and producing (everyone has a quota, you know?). The tubes were "great" when I got them, but they aren't anymore. Just 'cause Gibson guitars were awesome 30 years ago doesn't mean they are now (oh are they built shittily).
Business is business and the name matters a lot of the time.

C. TONALITY: The honest to God truth is, TUBES AREN'T THATTTT MUCH DIFFERENT. Your preamp tube choices will make a bigger difference than your power amp and last longer, so you're in good shape in that regards.



As I mentioned above, RUBY's are rebranded shit. Wouldn't go near 'em with a 10 foot pole.

My recommendations:

Preamp:

Electro-Harmonics 12AX7's (which are also rebranded tubes BUT PREMIUM ONES)

JJ/Tesla ECC-83 (these are running well now, but they are approaching the end of their lifespan- as I mentioned above)

JAN/Phillips 12AT7 (NOS tubes, I had mine cleaning up my 5150 II's clean channel for 5 years. Still sounds amazing).

Poweramp:

Sovtek 5881WXT- The only ones I use

Winged "C" (SED) EL34's- Marcus was dead on with these.

MULLARD EL34's- (NOS) Great tubes, but cost loot.

Svetlana 6550's- Got these in my Rocktron, tightest poweramp around.

 

[::XeS::]

Company use rebranded products because they are cheap. It doesn't matter if Mesa is the best etc.... c'mon, the 90% of the buyer are stupid guys that watch only the brand name (Mesa or Engl for example) and don't know nothing about tubes, so why a company have to spend more money for better tubes? They are already overpriced so if they can save some money (and sell the product with the same (high) price) it's way better

 

[Pot]

Recently I bought a pretty new 6505+. Today I checked out the preamp tubes and it has:

Sovtek 12ax7LPS | Sovtek 12ax7LPS | JJ ECC83 | JJ ECC83 | JJ ECC83 | JJ ECC83

(And 4 RUBY 6L6)

I noticed that the last 2 tubes (the 2 Sovtek I suppose, because they are the farther from the input) have no light inside the bulbs wheres the other 4 have normal light inside. Is it normal?

mine came with the same (it´s a 6505, so minus 1 jj).

 

[motomoto]

When i first got my E530, it was working like shit.Only one channel worked,and that with a terrible hum.After swapping the tubes around, the second channel was working,and of course with that same hum(first channel dead).
Changed the uberexpencive engl http://www.thomann.de/gb/engl_tube_ecc_83_select.htmtubes inside and put sovtekshttp://www.thomann.de/gb/sovtek_roehre_12ax7_wxtps.htm.Talking about half the retail price
Problem solved.In a few days i ll try JJ's