slashvanyoung
Dopefish lives!
Love the production! I think that one really comes down to perspective.
Musically, it's IMHO a strong but surprisingly noncohesive effort.
Musically, it's IMHO a strong but surprisingly noncohesive effort.
Meshuggah - ObZen Production
- Thread starter Fragle
- Start date
Uladyne
Greg
I think it works for the album, but the thing that irks me is that its all amp models and totally replaced drums. I wish I didn't know that. It's one thing for a record to sound fake, but to know that it actually is fake kind of sucks. Ah well, I guess with recording it's not the journey but the destination.
PhilR
Studio Scapegoat
I really liked the original "Nothing" mix. The drums sounded really natural and dynamic and the whole sound was still punchy as fuck. I heard the remixed version with the new guitars and was really disappointed. ObZen doesn't really sound very good to my ears either. I heard it played out in a club once and it just sounded like painful amounts of midrange and not much else. But then when you tune a guitar so low it's to be expected.
The guitarist in my newest band once explained why he didn't like 7/8 string guitars: "It's just an extra low not that you can feel but you can't hear" to be honest I agree with him more and more.
The guitarist in my newest band once explained why he didn't like 7/8 string guitars: "It's just an extra low not that you can feel but you can't hear" to be honest I agree with him more and more.
Actually, I like the original Nothing much much more too. Also, I love how the snare sounds in the original. In the remix, it has been replaced with a boring sampled snare that doesn't have any ring to it whatsoever
Harry Hughes
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- Apr 25, 2009
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Personally I still think Chaosphere is the peak of Meshuggah productions, followed closely by Catch Thirty Three.
I know the Line 6 stuff gets a lot of hate, but you gotta understand by the time the band made the switch to 8 string guitars tuned down one semi tone (meaning they have a low F), the Dual Recto used for the Chaosphere sound wasn't quite going to to cut it.
Regardless of what people think of the tone, Line 6 stuff just fucking works for when you have notes on the guitar going down that low where real amps just can't cope as well when you're playing this kind of music.
Had the band stuck to 7 strings, they probably could have kept using real amps however.
ObZen is by no means a bad sounding record IMO although I can think of many metal productions that have it beat hands down rather easily.
The guitar sound is nothing I'd personally want in my own music, but I think the sheer aggression of it fits the sound of the music quite well.
It does lack low end, I can agree and a little more lower mids would not have gone astray.
Musically, Meshuggah have done no wrong since DEI, every album including and after that scores a 4/5 at the least, for me.
I know the Line 6 stuff gets a lot of hate, but you gotta understand by the time the band made the switch to 8 string guitars tuned down one semi tone (meaning they have a low F), the Dual Recto used for the Chaosphere sound wasn't quite going to to cut it.
Regardless of what people think of the tone, Line 6 stuff just fucking works for when you have notes on the guitar going down that low where real amps just can't cope as well when you're playing this kind of music.
Had the band stuck to 7 strings, they probably could have kept using real amps however.
ObZen is by no means a bad sounding record IMO although I can think of many metal productions that have it beat hands down rather easily.
The guitar sound is nothing I'd personally want in my own music, but I think the sheer aggression of it fits the sound of the music quite well.
It does lack low end, I can agree and a little more lower mids would not have gone astray.
Musically, Meshuggah have done no wrong since DEI, every album including and after that scores a 4/5 at the least, for me.
Harry Hughes
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- Apr 25, 2009
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No offense, but your guitarist is TOTALLY missing the point of 7 and 8 string guitars.
Only an idiot would buy a 7 and/or 8 string guitar for more low end and just for the lower notes.
I bought one because I wanted more range and felt that 6 strings were holding me back from making the music I had in my head as well as not letting me play as much songs by other artists.
If I wanted lower, I could have just tuned down
but I don't like tuning down personally, because you lose the upper notes.
TheDude
Jocke Skog
Yeah the gear isn't too high end, but don't forget the acoustic treatment for about 20,000 and the 20+ years of experience. And Björn Engelmann isn't really icing on the cake, but the magic that completes the process. How dare you talk about my friend as "icing on the cake"?
A similar thing would be to say "yeah, I bought the same tools a the carpenter who built the house, that means I can build a house too". Yeah, I'm stretching it, but anyway.
The point is that Fredrik does Meshuggah in a very special way, and very different from what I would've done, but I think it works for their music. I have a hunch that the AxeFX will be used on the next one though. And the reason for Meshuggah using Line6 on the album is simply that I bought the first Axe-FX to FAL when Obzen was mixed and ready.
Hope that helped.
/Jocke
I love evrything Meshuggah have done, all the old demos and all the modern Obzen stuff. Although I think the sound on Obzen kicks ass, its lacks low end, the guitars are pretty hollow sounding, but it all goes together for music this brutal or agressive. To me, Chaosphere is the ultimate Meshuggah sound, I fucking love that album The guitar and bass tone is just perfect to me, and Catch 33 is my second favorite Meshuggah album that they have done.
The guitar and bass tone is just perfect to me, and Catch 33 is my second favorite Meshuggah album that they have done.Yeah the gear isn't too high end, but don't forget the acoustic treatment for about 20,000 and the 20+ years of experience. And Björn Engelmann isn't really icing on the cake, but the magic that completes the process. How dare you talk about my friend as "icing on the cake"?
A similar thing would be to say "yeah, I bought the same tools a the carpenter who built the house, that means I can build a house too". Yeah, I'm stretching it, but anyway.
And the reason for Meshuggah using Line6 on the album is simply that I bought the first Axe-FX to FAL when Obzen was mixed and ready.
Hope that helped.
/Jocke
Whoa dude, I didn't realise you were Jocke Skog! You totally kick ass man
thanks for chiming in jocke!
just to clarify, i was in absolutely no way trying to diss your studio! i was just pointing out that most of the studios where major label stuff is recorded seem to have a nearly ridiculous gear list, so it was actually very cool to see how modest gear coupled with experience (like you pointed out) can work out really well even for major label stuff....well, in my opinion, some people might disagree as you can see in this thread lol.
however, i'm not quite sure why you phrased that mastering part the way you did....i didn't try to talk shit about him (even if he fucked up behemoths apostasy quite hard, hehe), instead all i said is that even a hot shot mastering engineer can't turn shit into gold (the other way is very well possible, cough evangelion cough), so it's more just like the final polish in contrast to the mixing where the real sound shaping is done. i'm sure you can agree with that, do you?
well, aside from that....first of all, to the guy who said that the album was fake: sorry, but i can't see how using digital amps and sample replacement makes anything fake. especially with guitars it's still the same performance, just a different sound, so there's really not too much sense in your argument.
other than that, someone said it's easily surpassed by quite a few metal records out there....well i wasn't talking of it as if it was the next stabbing the drama etc in terms of being a sonic landmark - i was merely pointing out that it's production fits the music very well (imho again), and it doesn't really hit you in the face (at all) that the band mixed it themselves instead of having big names like bergstrand, nordström, finnvox or whosoever do it - something that at least I think is quite uncommon for a major label record. obviously there's a lot of better sounding stuff out there, but can you name one really great sounding album that was done under comparable circumstances?
just to clarify, i was in absolutely no way trying to diss your studio! i was just pointing out that most of the studios where major label stuff is recorded seem to have a nearly ridiculous gear list, so it was actually very cool to see how modest gear coupled with experience (like you pointed out) can work out really well even for major label stuff....well, in my opinion, some people might disagree as you can see in this thread lol.
however, i'm not quite sure why you phrased that mastering part the way you did....i didn't try to talk shit about him (even if he fucked up behemoths apostasy quite hard, hehe), instead all i said is that even a hot shot mastering engineer can't turn shit into gold (the other way is very well possible, cough evangelion cough), so it's more just like the final polish in contrast to the mixing where the real sound shaping is done. i'm sure you can agree with that, do you?
well, aside from that....first of all, to the guy who said that the album was fake: sorry, but i can't see how using digital amps and sample replacement makes anything fake. especially with guitars it's still the same performance, just a different sound, so there's really not too much sense in your argument.
other than that, someone said it's easily surpassed by quite a few metal records out there....well i wasn't talking of it as if it was the next stabbing the drama etc in terms of being a sonic landmark - i was merely pointing out that it's production fits the music very well (imho again), and it doesn't really hit you in the face (at all) that the band mixed it themselves instead of having big names like bergstrand, nordström, finnvox or whosoever do it - something that at least I think is quite uncommon for a major label record. obviously there's a lot of better sounding stuff out there, but can you name one really great sounding album that was done under comparable circumstances?
PhilR
Studio Scapegoat
And yet that is exactly the reason a huge number of people buy them. I've seen so many people playing 7 strings yet never touching the higher notes, or only doing so incredbily rarely. You might like to count yourself amongst musical innovators but you're totally outnumbered by all the total goobers out there. In any case, you don't need to agree with him. It's just another point of view.
GarethSE
New Metal Member
- Jul 5, 2008
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jocke ! nice to have you on this one! ;-)
could you do me a favor and ask fredrik what impulses he uses on his axe fx ?
i remember he used the "new recto" amp model (when they were here in hamburg i had the chance to see them soundcheck and the axe fx gave the best live guitar sound i have ever ever heard) but i guess 60 % of the sound will be the impulse...
cobhc
Amiga Enthusiast
TheDude
Jocke Skog
That was mostly a joke.
Of course the main sound comes from the mix, but I love to use a mastering pro to cover some mistakes and emphasize the good stuff. Saved my ass many times. It's basically the same setup we've used since 2005. I write "we" because we all used their Vettas back then, but when Meshuggah went on tour and Clawfinger was supposed to start the recording of "hate yourself with style" we found ourself without guitar gear. With the podxtpro the lined sound was (and still is) a nightmare, so I added a power amp, cab and a mic. I was lucky, and just left the mic on the cab. Some time later, Meshuggah did the "benzin" remix (Rammstein) and when I walked into the control room and heard the guitars, I was " WTF? OMFG the guitars!" and they answered something like "yeah, it's your fucking mic dude!".
When I got the AxeFX I immediately made an IR on that setup and Meshuggah still use that one.
No, I'm not giving it away.
theforgotten
Member
It's very nice that for Obzen and Meshuggah production talks someone that is very close to the band.I have just one question.Guitars on Obzen are dual or quad tracked?Thanks!
That was mostly a joke.
It's basically the same setup we've used since 2005. I write "we" because we all used their Vettas back then, but when Meshuggah went on tour and Clawfinger was supposed to start the recording of "hate yourself with style" we found ourself without guitar gear. With the podxtpro the lined sound was (and still is) a nightmare, so I added a power amp, cab and a mic. I was lucky, and just left the mic on the cab. Some time later, Meshuggah did the "benzin" remix (Rammstein) and when I walked into the control room and heard the guitars, I was " WTF? OMFG the guitars!" and they answered something like "yeah, it's your fucking mic dude!".
When I got the AxeFX I immediately made an IR on that setup and Meshuggah still use that one.
No, I'm not giving it away.
nice man! thanks for the info! appreciate it!
so its basically an ir of your tone on " hate yourself "?
i totally understand that you dont give it away! i wouldnt either! but let me tell you it slays live!!
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