Metal: A headbanger's guide

[Ravenous Enemy]

Demilich says I'm so ignorant and maybe he is right. But I'll have to stay that way if he can't help me (and others) by explaining the motivation for this "gore-lust". Justin S has made some good points. I think we both want these motives explained. Maybe I can get into it too then.

Well, i think if you'd have read the thread properly you could have picked up on some motives here.

1. People are out of touch with mortality. This drives a fascination with scenes of death. (theory)

2. Bands are just trying to be more extreme than the other. You may ask how it all started.. well it's pretty obvious that metal has links with 'percieved satanism' - you can't go having a 'satanist' album depicting Lassie catching a frisbee.

3. People are curious about pain, death, torture, brutality. There is so much of it occuring in the world, and people don't get any connection, and even comprehension of it, largely.

4. Some artists are just sick! (But not 'mentally ill' - if everytime something you didn't understand was 'mentally ill', well, i'm not sure how many sane people there would be left).

 

[Norsemaiden]

Okay I get you. But I still think its a mental disorder to be into that kind of stuff. And yes there don't seem to be many sane people left. IMO obesity is also a mental disorder for eg. It all comes down to opinion!

There is a lot of death in the world, but we are relatively protected from all that in our civilisation. Here's a theory: men in particular have a biological need to go to war or to fight regularly (which they are prevented from doing) otherwise a lot of them start getting screwed up and enjoying inappropriate violence. So this "gore-lust" we're on about is a kind of displacement behaviour. Is this possibly true?

Is anyone really shocked by that gore stuff anyway? I just think its corny, as someone said earlier, and could encourage actual sadistic behaviour (which you have got to admit would be insanity). As I said it is different if its about a battle scene. It's like the difference between the violence in Gladiator and that of Nightmare on Elmstreet. IMO metal should be more like Gladiator (or a wide variety of things) and have a heroic theme in preference to being about terrorising and murdering the helpless. But that's just personal preference after all.

 

[Demilich]

I don't know how to answer your continuous demands for explanations of gore-lust, since I do not find this imagery very appealing either. I do, however, find value in gore-ridden films and music for other reasons, such as compelling themes, interesting plots, etc. My argument is about tolerance of disparate views and not judging the tastes of others and labelling them as insane simply because you cannot reconcile yourself with what they consider important or interesting. To me, such a judgmental attitude is a very limiting facet of personality and will only paint you into a corner with respect to your possibilities in life. Imagine the creative potential culled from society by imposing such ridiculous definitions of sanity on a population. We would be without many of the (arguably) greatest artistic achievements of the past century, though many of them may lie in the realm of the avant-garde, partially due to the controversial content they use to whatever ends they see fit. And this is how I will conclude: You do not know why people choose to create art. If you want an explanation for gore-lust, ask a serious artist who chooses to work with gory material. I am not such a person, and you'll recieve no further answers from me on the subject. Unfortunately, simply assuming that something is insane because you have no evidence of other motives sounds horribly fallacious according to any type of logic I've ever subscribed.

Edit: Of course there are not going to be "many sane people left" if our society turns every last obscurity and obsessive characteristic of the human race into a disorder! This is the type of thing that I find to be a problem with contemporary psychology. The extensive labelling/categorizing of the "human condition" has led to people finding justification in medicalizing things as pedestrian as perverse art. According to this type of understanding, we're all insane in some way or other. This leads to another problem: the obsessive compulsion to avoid any type of behaviour that meets with popular or clinical definitions of insanity.

 

[Norsemaiden]

There is indeed a trend to medicalise as many conditions as possible, mainly driven by greed for financial gain in the medical industry. Nevertheless it is the case that most people in hunter gatherer societies are not mentally ill at all. It is civilisation (or domestication in the case of animals) that is the cause of the increase in aberrant behaviour.

 

[Tongue_Ring]

Well, i think if you'd have read the thread properly you could have picked up on some motives here.

1. People are out of touch with mortality. This drives a fascination with scenes of death. (theory)

2. Bands are just trying to be more extreme than the other. You may ask how it all started.. well it's pretty obvious that metal has links with 'percieved satanism' - you can't go having a 'satanist' album depicting Lassie catching a frisbee.

3. People are curious about pain, death, torture, brutality. There is so much of it occuring in the world, and people don't get any connection, and even comprehension of it, largely.

4. Some artists are just sick! (But not 'mentally ill' - if everytime something you didn't understand was 'mentally ill', well, i'm not sure how many sane people there would be left).

thank you, i don't know about anyone else but this pretty much answered the questions i had

 

[Tongue_Ring]

it kind of appears as if Norsemaiden is saying civilisation = bad, which i sort of agree with, in some ways

 

[Norsemaiden]

I intend to start a thread soon called "civilisation is bad" so there is no point in going off topic any more in that direction. Thanks for the idea of the title Tongue Ring.

 

[sdmf2]

Cannibal Corpse are not mentally deranged or sick people. theyre actually very nice and are married with kids (some of them). their lyrics/subject matter is simply the music equivalent of a horror movie and is purely for entertainment sake as a cohesive partner to the musical brutality. love em or hate em thats what it is.

 

[Norsemaiden]

Cannibal Corpse are not mentally deranged or sick people. theyre actually very nice and are married with kids (some of them). their lyrics/subject matter is simply the music equivalent of a horror movie and is purely for entertainment sake as a cohesive partner to the musical brutality. love em or hate em thats what it is.

That was interesting to know, about some being married and having kids. However it is sick for people to have a facination with sadistic torture and murder and it is clear that some people work out they can make money and get famous by cashing in on sick ideas. There are crack dealers who never take it themselves and have a marriage and kids. It's never going to make the world a better place to live in, that's for sure.

 

[MetalNub]

Okay I get you. But I still think its a mental disorder to be into that kind of stuff. And yes there don't seem to be many sane people left. IMO obesity is also a mental disorder for eg. It all comes down to opinion!

There is a lot of death in the world, but we are relatively protected from all that in our civilisation. Here's a theory: men in particular have a biological need to go to war or to fight regularly (which they are prevented from doing) otherwise a lot of them start getting screwed up and enjoying inappropriate violence. So this "gore-lust" we're on about is a kind of displacement behaviour. Is this possibly true?

Is anyone really shocked by that gore stuff anyway? I just think its corny, as someone said earlier, and could encourage actual sadistic behaviour (which you have got to admit would be insanity). As I said it is different if its about a battle scene. It's like the difference between the violence in Gladiator and that of Nightmare on Elmstreet. IMO metal should be more like Gladiator (or a wide variety of things) and have a heroic theme in preference to being about terrorising and murdering the helpless. But that's just personal preference after all.

The problem for men is that for thousands of years we have had "rites of passage" to challenge us. We fought to defend our villages, our farms, our families and our women (or raided to acquire them). We were the protector and provider to our families and most of that is all gone now. Men have been reduced to cubicles and having to be more "sensitive" to everyone else’s feelings. We are told to eat big cheese burgers and lots of crap because we are big, obese, two legged dogs and society is still trying to take the fight out of us. Men were built big and strong so we could face the challenges and struggles of survival and that struggle is lost to us now so we have no way to prove to ourselves we are men.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying lets all go beat our women. But most men have a violent streak inside them; we get pissed when somebody else even looks at our woman. Why? Maybe our instincts tell us that he will try to steal her so I'd best get ready for a fight. Maybe that's why we like violent movies and/or war movies. I can't help but think that all those years of fighting, death and survival are still inside us even though society has changed and we are no longer wanted to be the protectors. I know a lot of guys that are considered by their women to be somebody that goes to work and makes babies. Men can't live in that capacity, we want to be respected, and maybe feared a little as a competent warrior and mate.

 

[Norsemaiden]

Good answer. That makes a lot of sense. Men have been emasculated by society. Another reason why civilisation is bad! Actually sport seems to be a replacement for fighting, even when not playing it but just being a spectator. This may be is intended to channel off some of that male aggression in a socially acceptable way.

 

[MURAI]

Well, i think if you'd have read the thread properly you could have picked up on some motives here.

1. People are out of touch with mortality. This drives a fascination with scenes of death. (theory)

2. Bands are just trying to be more extreme than the other. You may ask how it all started.. well it's pretty obvious that metal has links with 'percieved satanism' - you can't go having a 'satanist' album depicting Lassie catching a frisbee.

3. People are curious about pain, death, torture, brutality. There is so much of it occuring in the world, and people don't get any connection, and even comprehension of it, largely.

4. Some artists are just sick! (But not 'mentally ill' - if everytime something you didn't understand was 'mentally ill', well, i'm not sure how many sane people there would be left).

Interesting thread. Serious bands portrayed taboos of society like death and evil because modern society has repressed it. Also, with motives to question morality in general. But of course there are bands that cover "extreme" subjects just for shock-value. Like, how meat is packedging is neatly in the grocery store mentioned in that film. White people say the Chinese are rather vulgar for eating lizards and what not. But to me, it doesnt make any difference what animals since we are all living by killing and consuming living organisms. And that meat in the grocery store is from meat slaughter houses.

I have the feeling that North American people are just de-sensitized and apathetic. Pop culture here gets into shock value inducing subjects like sex, drugs, and violence just as something for a little "fix". After all, it's all good as long as we're entertained right? lIt's done so much to the point that people lose any sensitivity or seriousness to it. Yes, like you said, we have desires for aggression and that is fulfilled in doing it virtually in computer games or watching horror movies.