Michael Moore rocks!

[Papa Josh]

"We like nonfiction and we live in fictitious times. We live in a time where we have fictitious election results, that elect a fictitious president. We live in a time where we have a man sending us to war for fictitious reasons," Moore said.

Right on Mr Moore.

My thoughts go out to the American soldiers and Iraqi people already lost and to those who are still yet to be.

Utter fucking bullshit.

 

[Nate The Great]

I was glad he got booed off the stage. Most of the celebrities at the Academy Awards weren't there for a political rally. That's how it should have been.

Michael Moore has made a career of pissing people off. He makes thought provoking documentaries, but I can't say I agree with what he did at the awards. He only did it for notoriety anyway.

 

[Demonspell]

I'm just surprised that they gave him an Oscar in the first place...and not verybody was booing...

 

[J.]

I missed it for two reasons:

1. My cable got turned off. Bastards.
2. I was out drinking. Beer rules.

 

[J.]

OK, I read what he said off of CNN. Given, I don't know how many people booed and how many cheered, but all I gotta say is- whooptie fucking doo.

Jee, a celebrity lookig for publicity. That doesn't happen everyday.

"Ficticious election results, that elect a ficticious President." I wonder if he would have said that had Gore won. I doubt it. What a wanker.

 

[NAD]

I like some of that guys movies (Roger and Me kicks ass), but sometimes he seems liberal just to be liberal.

 

[Papa Josh]

OK, I read what he said off of CNN. Given, I don't know how many people booed and how many cheered, but all I gotta say is- whooptie fucking doo.

Jee, a celebrity lookig for publicity. That doesn't happen everyday.

"Ficticious election results, that elect a ficticious President." I wonder if he would have said that had Gore won. I doubt it. What a wanker.

Gee, a celebrity is not allowed to have opinions and voice them like anybody else? Some of you act like they aren't part of the grand scheme..

And you're right, he wouldn't have said that if Bush hadn't cheated in his brother's home state.

Again, if Gore were President we wouldn't be where we are today.

Imminent threat my ass. Bush is a threat to the human race. WAKE UP AMERICA, you've been bamboozled!

Funny how his home state, my state, is going through all sorts of shit at the moment, but no one's really paying attention... now, not only is the Houston Police Department's DNA lab under intense scrutiny, but so is their ballistics division... People this is serious shit, death row cases, rape cases, etc, are getting looked over again... two of the most important departments handling evidence on the behalf of the state...

Similar to what's happening in our federal government? Perhaps. Bush doesn't need evidence, just his interpretation of the law. Maybe later his case will get overturned, but by then, just like many of the deaths he authorized in Texas, it's too late.

I wonder how many innocent people HE has killed.

 

[J.]

Gee, a celebrity is not allowed to have opinions and voice them like anybody else? Some of you act like they aren't part of the grand scheme..

Sure they are. But like npearce said, the Oscars aren't a political rally. He knew his speech would rile up viewers to check out his documentary. He essentially said nothing. It's been done before.

And you're right, he wouldn't have said that if Bush hadn't cheated in his brother's home state.

Dude, will you quit with the conspiracy theories already? There is no proof of this. You beg for proof that Iraq has WMD. I beg for proof of the Florida voting polls.

BTW, my cable went out this past weekend. OMG, it's a conspiracy against me so I can't watch my favorite shows. Lets blame it on Bush!

Again, if Gore were President we wouldn't be where we are today.

I love it when people say this, like they honestly know how Gore would have reacted. It's quite amusing really. Keep it up.

WAKE UP AMERICA, you've been bamboozled!

You live in America, don't you?

 

[Papa Josh]

Dude, will you quit with the conspiracy theories already? There is no proof of this. You beg for proof that Iraq has WMD. I beg for proof of the Florida voting polls.

The proof was given by Ms. Harris, the woman responsible for the counting in Florida who has gone on record as saying that if Gore hadn't conceded the numbers would've reached a different conclusion. And it is really funny that this "just so happened" to be in another Bush's state?
I don't really care about that anymore, as I don't see him getting re-elected.

BTW, my cable went out this past weekend. OMG, it's a conspiracy against me so I can't watch my favorite shows. Lets blame it on Bush!

Ha ha, you like to make light of things, I guess...

I love it when people say this, like they honestly know how Gore would have reacted. It's quite amusing really. Keep it up.

Well his record kinda speaks for itself. As does Bush's. I can see why many are comfortable with the job he's doing overseas. He's good at executions, lord knows he's had enough practice!

You live in America, don't you?

By circumstance yes, but I don't think in such small terms, I consider my self an inhabitant of Earth first and foremost, a global community. I don't pledge allegiance to any one country as all are full of shit.

 

[J.]

The proof was given by Ms. Harris, the woman responsible for the counting in Florida who has gone on record as saying that if Gore hadn't conceded the numbers would've reached a different conclusion. And it is really funny that this "just so happened" to be in another Bush's state?
I don't really care about that anymore, as I don't see him getting re-elected.

No, he will not get re-elected. This past election was my first time to vote for President, and also my last. When the country gets rid of te electoral college and elects a President based on the popular vote, I may re-consider.

Ha ha, you like to make light of things, I guess...

Well, in light of past comments, it wasn't too far-fetched.

Well his record kinda speaks for itself. As does Bush's. I can see why many are comfortable with the job he's doing overseas. He's good at executions, lord knows he's had enough practice!

The Americans are executing people in Iraq? Really? Seems more like self defense to me. The Iraqis seem to be the ones doing the executing.

By circumstance yes, but I don't think in such small terms, I consider my self an inhabitant of Earth first and foremost, a global community. I don't pledge allegiance to any one country as all are full of shit.

Well, I see myself as an inhabitant of this vast Universe, but don't pledge allegiance to any one planet.

 

[bloodfiredeath]

Well, I see myself as an inhabitant of this vast Universe, but don't pledge allegiance to any one planet.

All hail Zenu!

 

[Papa Josh]

No, he will not get re-elected. This past election was my first time to vote for President, and also my last. When the country gets rid of te electoral college and elects a President based on the popular vote, I may re-consider.

We agree on something!

The Americans are executing people in Iraq? Really? Seems more like self defense to me. The Iraqis seem to be the ones doing the executing.

"Self defense"???? Against what?

 

[MadeInNewJersey]

Josh, come on now, the entire WORLD is sitting up and taking notice at the "military tactics" of the Iraqi army & Saddam Hussein.

Fact: More than a few times, Iraqi National Guardsmen dressed as civilians, waved the white flag of surrender, then opened fire on unsuspecting Coalition forces.

Fact: Various devices & containment suits pointing quite clearly to chemical or biological weapons facilities have already been found.

Fact: The Iraqi military has taken to using civilian homes, apartments and buildings to stage military actions from; they flew a fucking RED CROSS flag over a hospital that contained nothing more than weapons, ammunition, soldiers & chemical biohazard equipment. WHAT THE FUCK!?!

Fact: Several of the American POWs that were captured were later found dead with bullet holes in their foreheads. Unless the Iraqi Guardsmen suddenly became sharpshooters, that is an execution-style shooting.

Fact: Saddam's regime has purposely ignited 6 oil fields in southern Iraq, as well as countless "oil trenches" in and around Baghdad. Gee, no wonder those sandstorms gave way to once-per-decade thunderstorms and that place seriously looks like Armageddon is approaching. I'm sure that's doing wonders to the delicate ecological balance of the Middle East, not to mention all the men, women & children they've accused the Coalition forces of "murdering." Please, get a fucking grip.

I'm not sure about the lighting of oil, but the first 4 facts clearly break all codes of war, rules of engagement, and I'm fairly certain, various components of the Geneva Convention. And yet, we still have to battle fucking liberals, fucking protestors, fucking half of Europe. What the fuck?

Oh gee, no wonder France, Russia and Germany didn't want us invading Iraq. It so far has uncovered that those 3 countries supplied Iraq with military weaponry to rival what the UK and the USA have (night-vision goggles, anti-aircraft weapons, cruise missles, etc.) and that France has been supplying Saddam with the necessary components to develop nuclear capabilities. I swear.

Not to cut my nose off to spite my face, but if this continues, I'm NOT going to Wacken. The last thing I'm going to fucking do is spend MY HARD-EARNED money in that fucking country.

 

[JayKeeley]

Not to cut my nose off to spite my face, but if this continues, I'm NOT going to Wacken. The last thing I'm going to fucking do is spend MY HARD-EARNED money in that fucking country.

Yeah but then you'd be taking it out on the people of the country. Just because their government acts in a certain way, doesn't mean the whole country follows suit.

And it works the other way too. Just because the US and UK governments are going in to war, doesn't mean all the people of the respective nations agree, as we are witnessing. Both Blair and Bush are on their last legs, neither will get re-elected I'm fairly certain, and this act was probably the final nail.

However, without stereotyping, the metal and punk scenes have pretty much always stood for antidisestablishment and antigovernment values. There are probably more liberals in the metal scene than any other music scene IMO. I would not be surprised if Wacken '03 became a platform for bands to express their anti-war opinions, and if that's going to totally ruin the event for you then you might want to reconsider....

...at the same time, people may just want to enjoy the music and ignore the politics for the weekend. It's a gamble man - depends on how serious you are about not wanting to go.

 

[Papa Josh]

Give me a fucking break, markgugs....

First and foremost, before all of your "facts," who prompted all of this?

BUSH.

Period.

None of this should've began in the first place. Iraq is a charter member of the UN, we attacked them without provocation (because of our narrowminded fears), and without UN approval.

Why does the "United States" place itself above and beyond the "United Nations?"

All of this fucking grand standing makes me fucking sick uke:

Ali, as usual, you have many good points.

 

[ChiefB]

FACT: This war has no legal standing within the UN Charter.

FACT: Hans Blix publicly declared at the start of this campaign, that the US Government had made up it's mind to goto war in February.

FACT: The Weapons Inspectors had found no evidence of WMD, and were currently destroying regular weapons on a daily basis.

FACT: The blowing up of the Iraqi TV station by allied forces, which is considered as a civilian object (even though it is being used for the purpose of propaganda) is in direct violation of the Geneva Convention.

FACT: This is a war that is being waged on both sides, we do not hear the full story and to be honest we will never hear the full accounts until years to come.

FACT: This is not an invasion, this is a war of pure attrition courtesy of massive aerial attacks to soften the Iraqi underbelly.

FACT: If Saddam destroys all his oilfields, what consequence is that to the average joe in the US? Also, the Bush government having massive sponsers from the energy sector walked away from the Kyoto Accord in 2001, that in itself caused global ripples for others not to bother about the environment.

FACT: Unfortunately, like the Gulf War in '91 and all other wars, soldiers will die simply to further their Government's needs.

You don't need to be Einstein, this war is futile, it will not resolve anything. Just look at Afghanistan, that country is in disarray. All the promises of the allies, and it's still the biggest black spot in the world. By the way, I was reading an article in Associated Press that suggests that US forces may invade North Korea. If Bush decides to invade, then this will obviously set the precedent for North Korea to use nuclear weapons.

Your comments about not attending Wacken because of the current climate is just fucking lame. You might as well use another excuse like you don't want to visit Germany because EVERYONE who lives there were responsible for gassing the Jews ! You don't make sense, and getting hot and cold over this matter is just ridiculous. You should sell your BMW and get a Saturn while you are at it !! /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

[Demonspell]

<<FACT: If Saddam destroys all his oilfields, what consequence is that to the average joe in the US? Also, the Bush government having massive sponsers from the energy sector walked away from the Kyoto Accord in 2001, that in itself caused global ripples for others not to bother about the environment.>>

Unless you have lucrative postwar rebuilding contracts like Haliburton, the consequences of the war upon oil consumption can only be negative. And I agree that Bush's refusal to sign environmental treaties had everything to do with not pissing off his sponsors...

 

[deathbearer]

No, he will not get re-elected. This past election was my first time to vote for President, and also my last. When the country gets rid of te electoral college and elects a President based on the popular vote, I may re-consider.



Well, in light of past comments, it wasn't too far-fetched.



The Americans are executing people in Iraq? Really? Seems more like self defense to me. The Iraqis seem to be the ones doing the executing

How is this war on Iraq considered self defense..Has Iraq attacked the USA? This comment defies logic.

 

[Papa Josh]

How is this war on Iraq considered self defense..Has Iraq attacked the USA? This comment defies logic.

Apparently it's considered a "preemptive strike in self defense"...

this is a new one for the law books folks.

 

[J.]

You both took my statement totally out of context. I was talking about the soldiers, not the war as a whole. The soldiers in Iraq are being fired upon, no? They fire back, hence self-defense if you want to live. Ignore the war as a whole and try to think if you were one of those soldiers. Self defense defies logic? I bet you were easy to pick on in school.