Michael Moore rocks!

[Papa Josh]

You both took my statement totally out of context. I was talking about the soldiers, not the war as a whole. The soldiers in Iraq are being fired upon, no? They fire back, hence self-defense if you want to live. Ignore the war as a whole and try to think if you were one of those soldiers. Self defense defies logic? I bet you were easy to pick on in school.

I believe he took your statement out of context if anyone did. I am referring to many people's idea that this is a self defense mechanism in play right now.

I totally support our soldiers' survival by any means necessary, I do NOT support the idiots in our government that put them there.

 

[J.]

I totally support our soldiers' survival by any means necessary

That is what I meant.

 

[haddsie]

Do my eyes deceive me or did Papa Josh and Dreamlord just agree on something within a political thread??

Next thing you know Markgugs will be in here bad-mouthing Bush. HA HA just kidding!

 

[JayKeeley]

The funny thing is, the worlds perception of the US presidents has just gone downhill in the last decade or so. I mean, they are literally caricatures like those cartoons on Saturday Night Live.

I know Thatcher had a bit of a reputation, and John Major was a bit cardboard, but Ronald Reagan, Daddy Bush, Clinton(!), and now this Bush jnr....what the heck happened after Carter?

I want to see that movie where Chris Rock becomes President. /forum/images/smilies/lol.gif

 

[HarmonyDies....]

Why did everyone jump off the patriot bandwagon? geez

And doesnt Al Gore's wife want to like censor all music, why would anyone vote for him?

 

[Papa Josh]

Why did everyone jump off the patriot bandwagon? geez

And doesnt Al Gore's wife want to like censor all music, why would anyone vote for him?

Because for one the probability of anything happening to the 1st ammendment is very low..

Also, that was like 1986 when Tipper was interested in doing any such thing. And besides, she wanted to label the album, not censor it.

 

[JayKeeley]

And besides, she wanted to label the album, not censor it.

Bands love that shit - helps sales. If I was in some death gore band, I would want advisory stickers all over my ass.

And just look what happened when the gay community wanted to band Eminem....his sales tripled, and he ended up doing a duet with Elton John. Mama mia...

 

[neal]

as for michael moore, i agree with what he said, but its the fuckin oscars man. get off your soapbox for one goddamn night huh? and as far as the war, ill quote the last 2 lines of mdfmk's amerikan dream:

innocence, pride, stabbed in the back
in the home of the brave defense equals attack

 

[MetalAges]

All I can say is everybody whining anout "NO WAR" or "BOO BUSH" would be singing a different tune if they had family over there under the tyranny of Saddam where you do what he wants when he wants it o ryou face death, mutilation, having your tongue cut out of your mouth, watching your wife raped and children killed in front of you and more. Nonne WANTS war but unfortunately, Saddam didn't take his opportunity of exile which goes to show you how much he cares about peace and human rights. It's beyond my comprehansion how these anti War people can not support us being over there to rescue these people from a sadistic and down right evil regime. I mean, isn't anyone watching the news even today/yesterday? Iraqi troops killin gtheir OWN people while they are dressed in Allied uniforms so they can weed out who's willing to welcome the troops? shot DEAD. These nut cases hiding within and behind women and children and firing on the Allied troops? Them BOMBING and firing machine guns at a stream of women and children leaving town towards allied camps? Why don't everyone just go out in the streets and start clapping hands at muggers and murderers, that's a good start for your logic. Unreal I tell ya.

 

[Papa Josh]

All I can say is everybody whining anout "NO WAR" or "BOO BUSH" would be singing a different tune if they had family over there under the tyranny of Saddam where you do what he wants when he wants it o ryou face death, mutilation, having your tongue cut out of your mouth, watching your wife raped and children killed in front of you and more. Nonne WANTS war but unfortunately, Saddam didn't take his opportunity of exile which goes to show you how much he cares about peace and human rights. It's beyond my comprehansion how these anti War people can not support us being over there to rescue these people from a sadistic and down right evil regime. I mean, isn't anyone watching the news even today/yesterday? Iraqi troops killin gtheir OWN people while they are dressed in Allied uniforms so they can weed out who's willing to welcome the troops? shot DEAD. These nut cases hiding within and behind women and children and firing on the Allied troops? Them BOMBING and firing machine guns at a stream of women and children leaving town towards allied camps? Why don't everyone just go out in the streets and start clapping hands at muggers and murderers, that's a good start for your logic. Unreal I tell ya.

There's the flaw in your logic. I do not have family over there, it is not my war. I agree, that is a horrible regime and needs to be ridden, but I don't think the protest has as much to do with going to war as it does with how it was gone about.

C'mon, people. George W. Bush represents Americans at the UN.... that is who you and I are equated with day to day...

Sorry if I seem a little bothered by this.

 

[MetalAges]

There's the flaw in your logic. I do not have family over there, it is not my war..

How quick are we all to forget 9/11? Do you not think that with all we have already learned that Iraq is not responsible for providing terrorists with weapons to do what they do? Granted that 9/11 was flying a plane into the towers but Saddam has provided these scum with weapons to strike American targets, that to me, makes it "our" war as a people, as American citizens.

I agree, that is a horrible regime and needs to be ridden, but I don't think the protest has as much to do with going to war as it does with how it was gone about.

So, by giving Saddam butt loads of opportunity to give up documents, even including letting him leave his Country to seek exile somewhere wasn't ample chance? 12 years even he shunned the resolutions and thumbed his nose at the rules he was supposed to abide by from the first war, how 12 years and all those chances isn't a WAY too long string of opportunities is beyond me.

C'mon, people. George W. Bush represents Americans at the UN.... that is who you and I are equated with day to day...

Thank God! LOL! Lord knows I wouldn't want one of those other Country leaders giving him more and more time and wanting to smack him on the hand and sayd "bad Saddam, bad boy, shame on you". This guy needs to be taken out of commission, the same as Hitler was and all other tyrants should be. I mean look at the common thief and thug in the USA, the more you smack him on the hand, the more they simply laugh and go do the same damn thing anyways. You commitc crimes you have to pay the price, plain and simple I would think.

I'm not fighting you on this by the way, I am just trying to get inside the logic that you are using about this. This seems to be a discussion that no one wins and rarely, for whatever reason, people are set in their ways when it comes to the opinion about it.

 

[Nate The Great]

I agree with Metalages. I'm tired of arguing about this crap. People know where I stand. End of story.

KILL SADDAM!!! BUSH RULES!!!

 

[Papa Josh]

How quick are we all to forget 9/11? Do you not think that with all we have already learned that Iraq is not responsible for providing terrorists with weapons to do what they do? Granted that 9/11 was flying a plane into the towers but Saddam has provided these scum with weapons to strike American targets, that to me, makes it "our" war as a people, as American citizens.



So, by giving Saddam butt loads of opportunity to give up documents, even including letting him leave his Country to seek exile somewhere wasn't ample chance? 12 years even he shunned the resolutions and thumbed his nose at the rules he was supposed to abide by from the first war, how 12 years and all those chances isn't a WAY too long string of opportunities is beyond me.



Thank God! LOL! Lord knows I wouldn't want one of those other Country leaders giving him more and more time and wanting to smack him on the hand and sayd "bad Saddam, bad boy, shame on you". This guy needs to be taken out of commission, the same as Hitler was and all other tyrants should be. I mean look at the common thief and thug in the USA, the more you smack him on the hand, the more they simply laugh and go do the same damn thing anyways. You commitc crimes you have to pay the price, plain and simple I would think.

I'm not fighting you on this by the way, I am just trying to get inside the logic that you are using about this. This seems to be a discussion that no one wins and rarely, for whatever reason, people are set in their ways when it comes to the opinion about it.

Agreed. However, dialogue is what keeps people like Bush from just going in and doing whatever he wants to anyone at anytime.

But, who made you or Bush or npearce for that matter, judge and jury?

And for you to equate 9/11 with Saddam Hussein is ludicrous, I still laugh at the Administration as they claim this, they claim that, but they have shit for evidence, otherwise a large portion of the global community wouldn't be so torn on this issue...

This is what happens when people dare to question the USA's authority. Look at what happened to David Koresh... a govt. ordered slaughter, much like what we despise about Hussein's regime.

I will reiterate again that i am not for Saddam Hussein, but I'm not for cowboys like Bush either. He lacks the level of intelligence I would expect of a WORLD leader. And to be honest, how is he going to treat the situation in North Korea? We're getting ready to find ourselves in one hell of a shitstorm, possibly nuclear.

Yet Hussein is unfinished business, is arab like the men that attacked us on 9/11, so he must pose a much more imminent threat. Kill 'em All, including Bush, and let God sort 'em out.

 

[JayKeeley]

Hey metalages - nice to see you at Royal Carnage, welcome! I agree, I think Saddam Hussein needs to be taken out as quickly as possible. He is one evil muthafucker!!

How quick are we all to forget 9/11? Do you not think that with all we have already learned that Iraq is not responsible for providing terrorists with weapons to do what they do? Granted that 9/11 was flying a plane into the towers but Saddam has provided these scum with weapons to strike American targets, that to me, makes it "our" war as a people, as American citizens.

9/11 is a day nobody around the world should (or will) ever forget. It was attack against humanity, not just Americans - although it was on US soil. Being British, I was especially proud of how my nation came to support the US - as always.

However, although these terrorists are sick scum, you sometimes have to go back to the beginning and ask 'why?'.

If you take your comment, "Granted that 9/11 was flying a plane into the towers but Saddam has provided these scum with weapons to strike American targets, that to me, makes it "our" war as a people", then are others allowed to feel this way too?

For example, since America offers free military training, arms, and military vehicles to Israel (including Black Hawk and Apache gunships), then aren't the Palestinians (or entire Arab world) allowed to feel the least bit resentful towards the USA?

And of course, I'm assuming that nobody would disagree with the UN council's declaration of Israel as an "appartheid regime". So you see, when one Arab is attacked, all Arabs tend to unite.

So, by giving Saddam butt loads of opportunity to give up documents, even including letting him leave his Country to seek exile somewhere wasn't ample chance?

If Saddam is so evil, and we're going in to 'rescue' Iraqi's, then why would we even offer him a chance of exile in the first place? I thought we wanted to take him out - not write him a ticket into North Korea, who by the way offered a safe haven for him.

This guy needs to be taken out of commission, the same as Hitler was and all other tyrants should be.

Agreed. He does need to be taken out. But let's not pretend we're going in to liberate anyone. There's an agenda here, and it is NOT to rescue anyone. In that case, the US should go into every place that is under some evil dictatorship regime to rescue the people, and we all know that's not going to happen. The US goverment doesn't do anything for 'free'.

And regarding Hitler, would the US have wanted to take him out had Pearl Harbor not been hit...? I guess we'll never know.

I am just trying to get inside the logic that you are using about this. This seems to be a discussion that no one wins and rarely, for whatever reason, people are set in their ways when it comes to the opinion about it.

I hope I offered some insight from my standpoint. I agree with everything you say about wanting to take out Saddam, and heck, I want the Iraqi people to be free, just like I wanted the Afghans to be free from the Taliban, but I just want the US government to be honest about all this crap.

 

[MadeInNewJersey]

Metalages, it IS nice to see you here. It's also nice to see that you're not a fucking liberal.

As npearce stated, everyone knows where I stand; I'm no longer commenting on this. All you whiny bitches can cry foul all you want. The best part, the part that keeps me LAUGHING, is that IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER, does it?

For the record, I *DID* sell my fucking BMW on Saturday.

And I stand by what I said. If you think I'm going to spend MY hard-earned American dollars in a country like Germany that has done nothing except assist in the deaths of American soldiers, think FUCKING again. How's that? Clear enough?

 

[J.]

I say drop nuclear weapons on Baghdad, wipe North Korea off the map with Atomic Weapons, and send Arafat "shalom-ing" straight to hell. Might as well drop one or two in Germany and France while we're at it.

But let me move to a more remote location first.

Oh, and the UN is so pointless it's funny. Gotta love figureheads.

And if people equate me with Bush day in, day out, that is their ignorance and stupidity taking precendence, not mine. Read between the lines people.

One more thing, send Gore and family, and all the death row inmates to Iraq before we bomb it.

After we annihilate everyone, we pull all of our funding of other countries and become a recluse.

BOOYA! All the answers right there. God, I'm good.

 

[neal]

dreamlord for president!
-neal

 

[neal]

nah, not really.
-neal

 

[JayKeeley]

we pull all of our funding of other countries and become a recluse.

Damn, that's all anyone wants!! Funny how all other countries can just get on with their day.

 

[Papa Josh]

Reading some of our posts made me realize how hopeless mankind is.... :Spin:

If everyone has the fucking answers, then why don't we fucking do something about it? 'Gugs unfortunately is right in the sense that it doesn't matter anymore...

But, is Iraq really better off right now?

Let's quit calling this shit "liberation" already. We liberated Afghanistan, Iraq, who's fucking next?

It's unfortunate that Texas lost it's right to secede from the "good 'ol USA".... but like that would ever happen anyway...

And to 'gugs, are you telling me that if you go to metal festivals in Germany, you're not going to spend any of your money? Pardon me all of you PC fucks, but that sounded gay.

One final question... why should I respect a soldier that is fighting a war, in which, he doesn't really know the cause he's fighting for?