Midi vs. Software triggers for drums

[theRev]

Hi!

Sorry if I'm going to ask something stupid, but I was wondering if a good set of midi triggers applied to a drum setup could totally replace softwares like drumagog or the new Trigger from Slate...

I ask because when I read infos like interviews from famous producers or from other forum members, I have the idea that they put midi triggers on drums during tracking, but then they use softwares like drumagog and co.

Is it possible to track audio like normal, plus midi stuff with triggers, and then feed softwares instead with audio, directly with the midi input? I'm a little confused I admit.

I track a drum session, both audio and midi input using triggers. Than I do a set of samples of my kit. Than I use, let's say, Slate Trigger to replace drums. Should I feed Slate Trigger (or whatever app) with midi or audio source? there are pros and cons with the two method? Could someone just point me in the right direction?

I'm gonna buy a good set of triggers and a app, so I want just to be sure to fully understand the tecnique...

 

[cloy26]

SSD's Trigger is specifically tailored TO replace drums from mic'd/triggered (audio from the trigger, not the midi info from the trigger) recorded drum tracks, not necessarily from midi, although it can.

Other programs like Superior Drummer 2.0, Kontakt, etc. must be fed midi information.

It looks like you have all your avenues covered, it's just a matter of how you want your workflow. Personally, When I track metal drummers, I prefer to have all the drums midi for maximum control over timing and velocity. Any other genre, and even metal if you like, can be done with the mic'd tracks.

 

[guitarguru777]

SSD's Trigger is specifically tailored TO replace drums from mic'd/triggered (audio from the trigger, not the midi info from the trigger) recorded drum tracks, not necessarily from midi, although it can.

This is incorrect, you can plug the Triggers into your interface, send each trigger to its own track, and the DAW will record the transients. You can then load trigger on each track and use the hits picked up by the triggers to play back samples within Trigger.

With Trigger can also send MIDI data to any program you wish, and specify which notes it plays I believe

 

[theRev]

SSD's Trigger is specifically tailored TO replace drums from mic'd/triggered (audio from the trigger, not the midi info from the trigger) recorded drum tracks, not necessarily from midi, although it can.

Other programs like Superior Drummer 2.0, Kontakt, etc. must be fed midi information.

It looks like you have all your avenues covered, it's just a matter of how you want your workflow. Personally, When I track metal drummers, I prefer to have all the drums midi for maximum control over timing and velocity. Any other genre, and even metal if you like, can be done with the mic'd tracks.

Thank you, really appreciated. I admit I know how both worlds (midi triggers vs. software) works, but I was confused about some redundancies in the process.

As you said, having midi can help editing, but then do you have to edit both midi and audio tracks? (adjust timing etc? ) so basically if Trigger or Drumagog 5.0 really do the job well should suffice to do a good drum part (without edit 2 times the recording, you only have to edit the audio part). Well I'll experiment a bit more, try Trigger demo and will see. Thanks again!

 

[xFkx]

Hi!
Sorry if I'm going to ask something stupid, but I was wondering if a good set of midi triggers applied to a drum setup could totally replace softwares like drumagog or the new Trigger from Slate...

I ask because when I read infos like interviews from famous producers or from other forum members, I have the idea that they put midi triggers on drums during tracking, but then they use softwares like drumagog and co.

First of all, there ain't such a thing as midi triggers. Triggers give of an acoustic signal. If you want midi notes from the triggers you have to buy a drum module like the dm5 or a roland trigger i/o. That's one thing, the other is you still need something to play back the samples like NI battery. So, drum module + battery -> a lot more expensive then slate's trigger.

Oh, and drum modules introduce a bit of latency which isn't automatically compensated in your daw

 

[schnykeees]

With Trigger can also send MIDI data to any program you wish, and specify which notes it plays I believe

Correct.

 

[cloy26]

This is incorrect, you can plug the Triggers into your interface, send each trigger to its own track, and the DAW will record the transients. You can then load trigger on each track and use the hits picked up by the triggers to play back samples within Trigger.

With Trigger can also send MIDI data to any program you wish, and specify which notes it plays I believe

This is how I record drums... Lol you are just agreeing with what was said... And I know you can ise trigger from midi, but slate himself said that isn't what trigger was made to do.

 

[theRev]

First of all, there ain't such a thing as midi triggers. Triggers give of an acoustic signal. If you want midi notes from the triggers you have to buy a drum module like the dm5 or a roland trigger i/o.

Just to know, how do you call these ? I never said I want my midi triggers play sounds out of nowhere. My question was aimed to understand what the pros are of having the additional midi tracks recorded with "DDrums piezo-acustic-whatever triggers" (should I use this term?) when right now there are software solutions like Trigger or the upcoming Drumagog 5 that do the job fairly well.

Is because midi's are easier to edit? in that case it's preferable for productions with really fast drums where triggering samples with audio gives more troubles?

Just wanted hints like that... even my first sentence was

Sorry if I'm going to ask something stupid, but I was wondering if a good set of midi triggers applied to a drum setup could totally replace softwares like drumagog or the new Trigger from Slate...

to imply that I'm gonna use samples from various sources to replace my drums. The whole purpose of the softwares I cited is to REPLACE the input you send them with samples, so I was sure no one would come to tell me that "midi info alone won't emit sound"... Doh

 

[xFkx]

Just to know, how do you call these ? I never said I want my midi triggers play sounds out of nowhere. My question was aimed to understand what the pros are of having the additional midi tracks recorded with "DDrums piezo-acustic-whatever triggers" (should I use this term?) when right now there are software solutions like Trigger or the upcoming Drumagog 5 that do the job fairly well.

Is because midi's are easier to edit? in that case it's preferable for productions with really fast drums where triggering samples with audio gives more troubles

Ok, I kinda get what you're aiming at...

So, like I said, a drum trigger will not give you midi data, you need something like a drum module to do it. Or you can do it after the recording using slate's trigger or drumagog and print a midi track from the audio track..

But to get to the essence of your question, with midi you can use automatic quantization which will make your drum editing much faster. Although I suggest to do it only for the kick, becouse you can get away with the kick beeing out of sync with the overheads, but snare and toms not so much.

I personally like to work with audio signal all the way through.

 

[AboutBlank]

I personally like to work with audio signal all the way through.

Yeah man, me too...
Better for Slip Editing.
But tomorrow I'll try to use Triggers without the module and use them to sidechain the gates.


Havent done that before, if I connect the Triggers to an mic pre I'll get "blobs", right?!
And I have zero(the same latency) as my mic tracks, right?!

 

[guitarguru777]

Well the mics will give you less then 1ms latency due to "sound travel" so yes 0 latency. You will hear ticks coming through the interface when the trigger is hit. you can actually tap the triggers with your fingers and it would work too. I actually fixed a drummers sloppy ass kick track by doing that ....lol

 

[AboutBlank]

Well the mics will give you less then 1ms latency due to "sound travel" so yes 0 latency. You will hear ticks coming through the interface when the trigger is hit. you can actually tap the triggers with your fingers and it would work too. I actually fixed a drummers sloppy ass kick track by doing that ....lol

Haha, yes man, playing drums with one finger

Thanks for clarifying, dude.

 

[Trevoire520]

I think I see where you're coming from. You're basically asking if there's any need for triggers now that sample replacement programs are getting better at triggering from mic'd tracks?

In a nutshell, yes.
Triggers have MUCH less spill than mic's, no matter how well placed they are. And triggers have much better defined transients. If you're planning on sample replacing 100% then life will be easier with triggers, plus they're quicker and easier to set up.