Mixing Symphonic Metal, guitars ruin the mix...

[SaphiroN]

Hi! I know I'm new here but I hope you guys can help me. So I'm recording the first EP of my band, we play symphonic metal (not the gothic stuff) Dream Theater, Epica, Adagio, Symphony X are some of our influences. When I was mixing the orchestra (french horns, violins, cellos, violas, tubas, xylophone, etc) with the drums it sounded really awesome, the drums and orchestra were perfect but then I tracked the guitars(1 right 1 left) which sound awesome when soloed. When I listened to the whole thing, either the guitars were too loud or the orchestra was to loud, I just can't find a way to make the perfect mix and give each sound its place in the mix. I emailed Ola hoping he would have some advice for my problems but he sent me here, so does anyone out there have some experience with this type of music? thanks!

 

[AndrewB]

I think you just need to try to limit the bandwidth of your guitars as much as possible. Try HP'ing up to 150, and LP'ing down to 7k, just to see what happens. You will probably need to put a multiband compressor on the low mids of the guitars.

If that doesn't work, you might need to look at limiting the bandwidth of the orchestra.

 

[Ermz]

You've run into one of the problems which is endemic to mixing the very hardest genre of all rock/metal. The orchestration and guitars compete for the same frequency room. Normally you have to sacrifice energy in either the guitars or orchestration, or both, in order to make it all work together. That type of music is notoriously difficult to mix well. When I did the Lorenguard record, I had to really optimize the amount of frequency real-estate that every element was taking up. The orchestration was heavily automated and EQ'd in order to sound airy and 'out of the way', and the guitars were sculpted all around it.

There is no quick fix. You have to get into it HARD. Get surgical with it. Giving us an audible clip will help with specific suggestions.

 

[TheWinterSnow]

I find it has a lot to do with the quality of the orchestra library you are using. The obviously fake power metal orchestras is a never ending struggle to get right, but if you have a super high quality ultra real orchestra library, it comes down to controlling the low mids of the guitar.

 

[updog]

if you have a super high quality ultra real orchestra library

please elaborate.

 

[MetalMiller]

I think the character of the guitar tone itself is most important. Try searching a tone that fits best to your orchetral sounds. Massive eqing won´t work. Post some clips and i/we can give more specific information.

Here´s my latest tune:

 

[SaphiroN]

I find it has a lot to do with the quality of the orchestra library you are using. The obviously fake power metal orchestras is a never ending struggle to get right, but if you have a super high quality ultra real orchestra library, it comes down to controlling the low mids of the guitar.

I'm using EWQL SO Platinum XP which is one of the best out there for the price, it sounds very close to real in most situations. Many of you have told me to control the low mids of the guitar so that's the first thing I'm gonna try, thank you all for your replies!

 

[SaphiroN]

I think you just need to try to limit the bandwidth of your guitars as much as possible. Try HP'ing up to 150, and LP'ing down to 7k, just to see what happens. You will probably need to put a multiband compressor on the low mids of the guitars.

If that doesn't work, you might need to look at limiting the bandwidth of the orchestra.

What do you mean by HP'ing and LP'ing?

 

[Vaggelis_Revolted]

high pass low pass

 

[ang3]

use the latest dimmu for a reference. andy mixed it great! but its focus is on the orchestra so the gtrs are not as upfront.

 

[domingooo]

I think the character of the guitar tone itself is most important. Try searching a tone that fits best to your orchetral sounds. Massive eqing won´t work. Post some clips and i/we can give more specific information.

Here´s my latest tune:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ810Rdjkao&feature=related

great Tune!!! and Great video too!! hehehe well done!!

may i sugest trying our challenge just for practice and for some fun???

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/rate-my-mix-tone-threads/757278-you-man-enough-mix-epic-orchestral-metal.html

 

[MetalMiller]

^Done

 

[domingooo]

^Done

Hell yes!!! good mix... sounds very diferent with out the choirs...

a little tip we found very useful... moving the orquestral back and foward for accent some hits or parts helps a lot.. it became bored and tiering if al the instruments are always there

 

[JakeAC5253]

Funny, out of the blue I was just listening to some old Therion. Check out my reamping clips in my sig, I think my tones would fall into a dense mix easily. If I can help with your project, let me know, I would be glad to help.