Mixing Toms

[DestroyTheColossus]

For some reason I just cant seem to get toms to sound good when im mixing them. I know its something im not doing with the EQ but I can't seem to figure out what it is. Even my teacher pointed them out as a weak spot in my mixes, but didn't have any input on how to fix them. Im curious how you guys go about processing the toms in your mix, and maybe I could figure out where im getting lost from that.

 

[Zack Uidl]

This would help me a great deal also. I can get a good kick, snare and oh's, but my toms always sound terrible without sample replacement.

I can get a good "crack" out of them, but after that . . . well . . . just terrible really

 

[Morgan C]

I mic'd up my floor tom with a Beta52 and after some rather extensive EQ in the midranges it sounds absolutely killer (even though I've now found out listening to it that its out of tune -_-). My two rack toms though, can't get em sounding right, either too boingy or too dull, argh. I'll post up the EQ settings of my Floor Tom later on if that'll help so you know where to look. Stuff like GClip, compression, parallel compression, gates, etc. all helps but I find the majority of the sound comes from the EQ.

 

[PhilR]

Use a transient enhancer like Waves TransX or DigitalFishPhones Dominion. Makes a huge difference.

 

[LSD-Studio]

actually I think toms are the easiest thing to get right..
I process them quite similar to kickdrums...

a medium-wide boost in the 4-6k range, a deep medium wide cut in the 300-600Hz area and a small narrow boost at the fundamental.

search for the "smack" in the 4-6k range and sewwp the 300-600 with a narrow EQ to find the boxy/cardboardy...freq, then cut 4-15dB and widen the Q a bit.

sweep the low end with a narrow boost and find the fundamental, boost if necessairy.
compressorsettings depend strongly on the comp, if it's the MH CS and I set it to "smooth" it'll be like 5-10ms Attack and anything between 5 and 150 ms release.....on most other comps I'll have the atack around 25-35.
I don't like too much gainreduction on the toms though--...

I'm sending them to a bus and send that bus to the same reverb as the snare....sometimes parallel compression on toms can help alot as well
I REALLY like Audix D2 on racktoms.

 

[punkrockacademyfightsong]

exactly what Lasse says!

only i usually use 904's, 421's or AT3000's and have the attack time on 15-25 ms (waves Rchannel) to get a bit more of the initial hit come through but I guess it really depends on what comperssor you use

most of the time I'm sending them to the same reverb as the snare, sometimes I send them to a longer verb to make them sound bigger.

 

[LSD-Studio]

exactly what Lasse says!

only i usually use 904's, 421's or AT3000's and have the attack time on 15-25 ms (waves Rchannel) to get a bit more of the initial hit come through but I guess it really depends on what comperssor you use

most of the time I'm sending them to the same reverb as the snare, sometimes I send them to a longer verb to make them sound bigger.

yeah, it's only the MH on "smooth" that I set that fast.. on the "smooth"-setting the comp seems to be quite a bit slower and a bit more "lush" (I guess it emulates old feedback style...don't know though)

 

[Sloan]

we need a toms sticky. i also haet toms.

 

[Zack Uidl]

Thanks, the input is very helpful

I don't know why I have such a hard time with them

 

[Tommy Gun]

Yeah Lasse should do a Toms sticky, definitely.

 

[alexrookie]

...mmh mixing toms isn't that hard, but tuning them is for some people!
the batter and the resonant skins need to be in a good relation to each other, otherwise your toms will be a) too sticky and dampened or b) too boomy with no explicit attack.

you can do a lot to toms in the mixing stage, but false tuned drums will always sound dull.
listen to your overheads and your room mics - how does the toms sound?
it's not all about the close mics!
but to be honest, in metal (the modern, loud and compact stuff) you're better off trying sample replacement - grab your favourite toms and put them into your song - done!
for rock and similar more 'natural' stuff it is more about the room sound and so the tuning is most important - at least to me!

what lasse pointed out for mixing toms is something that works for me as well btw.shaping the transients is a good way to go also.
if the tracks are really clean a limiter on the tombus will help you to get the toms upfront, but be careful with the transients.

 

[ahjteam]

we need a toms sticky. i also haet toms.

You guys forgot Daunts guide already?

http://www.faderwear.com/guides/aggressivedrums/






But my opinion. Note: I am not a studio engineer, I do 99.9% livesound (~700 gigs so far), but the basic principles apply in both enviroments.

MAIN PRIORITY: The toms must/should have good quality skins that are in tune. If the toms sound like diamond in the room, its already 95% of the sound. You can play those 3 year old skins with 70 layers of tape on it, but they will most likely sound like they sound. Do note that I'm talking about metal/rock drummers here, not jazz drummers; they barely even touch those skins with the sticks.

SECOND PRIORITY: The mic and placement. And a lot of patience from you AND the musicians.

With exception of highpass filter, after bringing up the gain on the preamp, it should already sound kickass without any EQ, compressor or noise gate added. If its almost there but could be better, then try to change the position a little and if its totally hideous, change the mic. And if you are doing this for the first time, DON'T settle with the first placement of the mic or even the first mic, try different ones and do A/B comparisons. Also remember to take a picture of the setup just in case.

I am not saying to do this because I said so, I have a reason for this. The reason is, that what you spend 2 hours in fixing with just choosing the correct mic and positioning, can take over 40 hours to fix in the mix.

At live gigs I have noticed that usually about 1-3 fingers above the drum near the rim in a ~45 degree angle gives a nice round tone with a good balance of boom and snap. The good stuff usually happens between 40-150hz and 1k-8k, but for example I have many times scooped out near 1.5k if it gives you this beachball sound, the lower side of the beachball is usually around 300-600hz

 

[ElektricEyez]

Just curious, for the toms, what type of skins do you guys like? I find that skins can make a huge difference in the sound. Also, do you prefer coated heads, clear heads, single vs dual heads, hydraulic heads and why do you prefer those types of heads. I just picked up a used Birch Pacific for the studio, with stock heads and I want to know which heads would be best.

 

[beyond dead]

congrats on the new kit. those kits are sick.
Ive tried evans g2`s (clear) G1`S (coated) hydraulics and almost every type of remo`s and aquarian.

my personal fav is the g1`s right now, but they all are good and get different results.

surprisingly enough, i liked the sound of the hydraulics alot.

i suggest trying any of the above mentioned evans skins. i have found them to sound really good live, and gotten decent results with recorded sounds aswell, although i am no pro at mixing

i want to try an evans emad on bass kick

 

[Melodeath]

I've got this preset I made for tom EQ which has never failed me.

About a 10 dB cut at 400 Hz, with a Q of 2.4
a 6 dB boost at 159 Hz with a Q of 3.6

Try it out and tweak from there. That EQ always makes any tom I've recorded instantly sound better.

 

[fooman]

If you have a kit with tunes toms and a good drummer who can hit the drums properly and like they mean it, then it's a breeze. I mixed a metal track recently with the toms all with 57's through an API 3124+. No EQ, bit of compression, the toms are all present and punchy. The drummer is excellent and the kit sounded amazing.

I find that often drummers in metal bands come in, play all this crazy crap but it's all mud in the end without sample replacement because they hit like little girls and expect that to come through on top of Mesa and Ampeg amps, screaming vocals, synths etc.

When I have to EQ, I often cut the mids, boost the hi's, and maybe boost the lows around 200hz a bit. I use a Transient Designer plug to get some more attack if needed. I try to get away with as little EQ as I can. I treat the toms like a kick almost... compression is similar too with slow attack and whatnot.

 

[ElektricEyez]

I find that often drummers in metal bands come in, play all this crazy crap but it's all mud in the end without sample replacement because they hit like little girls and expect that to come through on top of Mesa and Ampeg amps, screaming vocals, synths etc.

LoL, aint that the truth! I hate when they hit like sissys, especially when your triggering the snare and the hats are louder than the snare which causes false snare triggering. UGH! It's like come on, hit the snare, don't just bounce your stick on it.

 

[MetalWorks]

I find my most common problem to be more of a masking issue.

Toms seem to be easy to EQ and make sound good, but in the mix is where it seems harder to make sure they stand out enough.

I know that I probably should go into the other tracks and cut certain spots to make room for them but I usually end up bumping the volume of the toms and dropping the other tracks volume to make sure they sit right.

I also recommend the Audix D2 if you dont have the cash for 421's.

 

[beyond dead]

^ +1 i find that if i put toms at level i like, they hit master buss compressor to hard. if i compress them too much to resolve the master bus pumping, they sound like crap. hard to find a happy medium

 

[schust]

i'd like to hear how others approach the amount of reverb to use on the toms. i've been struggling with that. too little and they sound like boxes, too much and they get lost.