Mixing Toms

[Tommy Gun]

I like them to stay right up in your face, so I don't use much, myself. Usually a 'small room' (slow song might get a medium room) at about 15%-20% and I set the decay around 350-450ms with about 50ms of pre delay. Once they're in the mix, you really can't even tell there any reverb on them. Just sounds like a decent room.

 

[Ermz]

A very large element of getting a good recorded tom sound is the toms in themselves. If you are dealing with cardboardy sounding drums then you'll of course be processing a lot more than you should be. The best acoustic tom sound I got came from a drummer who had some great, open and fat sounding toms that were tuned as low as the drum was able to handle.

Given that everything has gone well you shouldn't find yourself having to do processing that's too drastic. The standard fare with toms tends to be a high pass (I used to let the floor toms go down to about 50Hz in the past, but now I'm not so sure anymore), some high shelving to brighten up the attack, a low-mid cut to get all the muddy woof sound out, some low-end treatment, and of course slow attack, medium release compression, varying on a case to case basis.

If the toms you've recorded, without any processing at all, aren't at least indicative to you of a good tone then you're already fighting with a hand tied behind your back. Good toms simply sound like good toms, as soon as you get that mic on them. All the processing does is excite them and get them sounding punchier in the mix. You want to avoid turning shit into gold at all costs.

 

[ElektricEyez]

I don't have much of a problem getting the toms to sound good, because like someone else already said, they sound great until everything else comes in. The problem I run into most is getting the toms to punch through the mix. what I usually end up doing is just using a gate w/samples, and put an EQ very similar to what everyone else does, scoop the mids, bump the lows and go nuts on the treble then send them to a buss with a limiter. The problem I run into if I don't use samples is that putting a limiter also brings out cymbal and snare bleed, especially with the treble being boosted to all heck. I even suggest making samples out of the drums your using at the time, if you want to make sure that you get the sound the drummer is after, so you can still boost the crap out of the toms. That's just what I've been doing, and there is probably a better way of doing this, but I really love it when the toms cut through the mix, especially when you have a good drummer. So few drummers actually use them extensively.

I wonder has anyone ever tried side-chaining a compressor to the toms for some ducking so that when the toms hit, everything else just backs off a bit to let them cut through?

 

[Tommy Gun]

I wonder has anyone ever tried side-chaining a compressor to the toms for some ducking so that when the toms hit, everything else just backs off a bit to let them cut through?

A lot of guys do that actually. We've done that on a lot of recordings over the last year or so. But, I also encourage working with your Compression/Gate and getting good at it, without Sidechaining. Maybe I'm old school. But, I still get killer results from gating each individual tom and working with the settings for a bit.

 

[schust]

maybe my situation is a little more different than most. i have a cheap kit and never seem to get the tuning right - so i always sample the toms. the problem is, i can never completely get the "bad" toms out of the OHs. i think that's where my problem lies. i know a lot of people here (including Andy) recommend cutting everything roughtly below 600hz on the OH's, but when i do that i completely loose the low-end "clang" on my hats (i'm not mic'ing the hat). anybody else run into this situation before and have a remedy? btw, i do exactly what everyone else is suggesting regarding EQ, comp and trans designer. just can't get them sounding non-boxy and thunderous (<- is that a word?? ) .

 

[fooman]

Schust,
The first thing anyone will tell you is to get a good kit and a good drummer in a great room. I'm not gonna lie, a good room is ok for a lot of metal drum sessions because the drums are usually up front while the cymbals/OHs take a backseat.

Anyways, in metal you need a great drumkit. The drums are right up front... so a lackluster kit will work I guess if you hit them properly and can tune them, but for the most part you will get weak drum tracks. I tracked subpar drums on a few songs, and they always turned out mushy, boxy, crap. No matter how much EQ I did to them, designed the transients, etc. haha. It seemed that the worse the kit, the worse the drummer was so the problem was compounded! Not timing per say, but the way the dude hit his drums... just weak and indecisive.

I've learned that if you track a drum and it sounds lacking to begin with, you're in for more work later on and the drum will never sing in the mix without samples.

So my advice is to either spend a lot of time learning to tune your drums to the best of their ability (best they will sound), and/or get a good sample library!

 

[schust]

Schust,
The first thing anyone will tell you is to get a good kit and a good drummer in a great room. I'm not gonna lie, a good room is ok for a lot of metal drum sessions because the drums are usually up front while the cymbals/OHs take a backseat.

Anyways, in metal you need a great drumkit. The drums are right up front... so a lackluster kit will work I guess if you hit them properly and can tune them, but for the most part you will get weak drum tracks. I tracked subpar drums on a few songs, and they always turned out mushy, boxy, crap. No matter how much EQ I did to them, designed the transients, etc. haha. It seemed that the worse the kit, the worse the drummer was so the problem was compounded! Not timing per say, but the way the dude hit his drums... just weak and indecisive.

I've learned that if you track a drum and it sounds lacking to begin with, you're in for more work later on and the drum will never sing in the mix without samples.

So my advice is to either spend a lot of time learning to tune your drums to the best of their ability (best they will sound), and/or get a good sample library!

well, i agree a good drum kit would be nice - but reality is reality some days, you know. anyway - i've heard many times that people have gotten a better sound from a simple Pearl export kit (the one i have) over a 10k maple set. there are definitely a ton of things that affect the drum sound; kit, room, mics, DRUMMER, etc, etc. but i do think with enough work you can get a fairly decent drum sound from a relatively cheap kit.

i like to think i do have a pretty good sample library. hell, i've went around and around and still come back to Andy's toms. they really have some meat. but again, my issue is the tom bleed from the OHs. Andy's samples sound killer, but those damn OH toms sound like boxes. i do cut below ~300hz, so the low-end is out but some of the higher end bleeds through giving a boxy sort of sound.

so, i'll pose the question again, somebody must have confronted this before. the rest of the kit sounds good, and the toms are ok, but i really want 'fantastic' toms.

how do you deal with cutting the mic'd toms from the OHs, when your sole source of hat and cymbals (and room) are the OHs - and I only want to cut below 300hz to keep the low-end on the hat??

thanks in advance.

 

[Tommy Gun]

Honestly, with your stipulations of (1) only having OH for Hat and Ride, and (2) wanting the Hat to sound thicker using low end... I don't honestly think you are going to get those Toms out of there. You need mics on the Hat and Ride, and quite possibly higher OH positioning, to gain more control. That way you can roll-off everything under 600 on the OH, use your Comp wisely, and get rid of those Toms (for the most part anyway).

 

[schust]

Honestly, with your stipulations of (1) only having OH for Hat and Ride, and (2) wanting the Hat to sound thicker using low end... I don't honestly think you are going to get those Toms out of there. You need mics on the Hat and Ride, and quite possibly higher OH positioning, to gain more control. That way you can roll-off everything under 600 on the OH, use your Comp wisely, and get rid of those Toms (for the most part anyway).

agreed. hat, cymbals and a pair of room mics. time to get out the checkbook again...

 

[ElektricEyez]

I've gotten pretty good Tom sounds when I recorded a band that used a Pearl Forum kit. He had coated Evans GQ heads tuned nice and low, and e604 mics.