More C4 guitar tracking questions etc..

[Barnyard]

Ive been perusing some of the previous threads in regards to the C4 compression usage on guitars. Its hard to find some threads because the search engine doesn't recognize 2 worded inquiries..

I see some differing opinions on the initial usage of the plug-in. Is there a recommended method of applying the C4 to the tracks.. ie: Is it most common to use it on the input buss as the track is being laid, or to process it afterwards? ( Id be doing this with G4 Dual 1.25, gig ram, Digi002, ProTools )

Also, I know this one is probably an uneccesarily nebular question, but I see a common tracking method for metal guitars is to use 2 mic's on the cab, and record 4 tracks, panned at 100 and 80 respectively. So would the guitarist be essentialy tracking two guitar tracks at once, with each mic laying a different track (done twice) , or is the idea to record a combination of both mic sounds to one track (done 4x)

And finally, in regards to software eq's, what does everyone prefer to use on guitars, and again is it best to track w/ eq plug or process afterwards.. Does Andy use outboard eq's? Thanks!

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

And finally, in regards to software eq's, what does everyone prefer to use on guitars, and again is it best to track w/ eq plug or process afterwards.. Does Andy use outboard eq's? Thanks!

The best EQ is to use as little as possible. With the right guitar sound you should only have to use a bit of high and low pass.

 

[Gomez]

The best EQ is to use as little as possible. With the right guitar sound you should only have to use a bit of high and low pass.

Genius. the way it should be.

 

[TheStoryteller]

I see some differing opinions on the initial usage of the plug-in. Is there a recommended method of applying the C4 to the tracks.. ie: Is it most common to use it on the input buss as the track is being laid, or to process it afterwards? ( Id be doing this with G4 Dual 1.25, gig ram, Digi002, ProTools)

There is no reason at all to use the C4 on guitars during tracking. During mix you should apply the C4 to a bus with all your rhythm guitars. IF needed.

Also, I know this one is probably an uneccesarily nebular question, but I see a common tracking method for metal guitars is to use 2 mic's on the cab, and record 4 tracks, panned at 100 and 80 respectively. So would the guitarist be essentialy tracking two guitar tracks at once, with each mic laying a different track (done twice) , or is the idea to record a combination of both mic sounds to one track (done 4x)

No matter how many mics you use, they should still be mixed together on the spot, and recorded onto one track. So you have to do it 4 times.

 

[Bob Savage]

No matter how many mics you use, they should still be mixed together on the spot, and recorded onto one track. So you have to do it 4 times.

What do you mean by "recorded into one track?"

 

[TheStoryteller]

Mix them together and record on a mono track. Instead of recording each mic on its own track.

 

[Bob Savage]

Mix them together and record on a mono track. Instead of recording each mic on its own track.

Why would you want to do that?

 

[TheStoryteller]

My question would be "why not?" I've learned to do it this way by Fredrik Nordström in Studio Fredman, and I can't see a reason not to do it. My guess would be that Andy does the same, even though I don't think it has been discussed.

 

[Exsanguis]

No matter how many mics you use, they should still be mixed together on the spot, and recorded onto one track. So you have to do it 4 times.

You don't have to mix them together "on the spot" during tracking. Putting each mic or signal on a separate track can be very helpful during the mix. I'll often use 3 amps for my guitar sound: one for the bottom, one for body, and one for the top end/crunch/whatever you wanna call it. Each amp often will have more than one mic on it. If I feel like committing to my guitar tone then and there, I'll sum them all down to a mono or stereo track and continue overdubbing guitars that way, but I usually keep my amp tracks and sometimes my individual mic tracks separate. Very useful if you want subtle changes in the guitar tone during different parts of the song. There are no "shoulds" or rules in recording, just do it the way you feel comfortable doing it.

 

[TheStoryteller]

Maybe I shouldn't have said "SHOULD be mixed together"... But that's the way I've learned to do it; and it's also the way the producers and engineers in the studios we've recorded our albums have done it. If I've already decided the best balance between mics (often being the center-mic to be slightly lower), then I see no reason to change it later on. Too many options during mix makes you go crazy...

 

[Bob Savage]

My question would be "why not?" I've learned to do it this way by Fredrik Nordström in Studio Fredman, and I can't see a reason not to do it. My guess would be that Andy does the same, even though I don't think it has been discussed.

The "why not" would be the same answer as to "why not add all your fx during tracking?"

You can always sum the two tracks with each mic, but you cannot split them if they're tracked to a single mono track. There are also a LOT of options available to you when you have them on seperate tracks, such as mixing in a smaller amount of one of the mics due to personal preference, changing the pan, etc. Perhaps I'm missing something here, but tracking two mics to a single mono track makes no sense to me.

 

[Bob Savage]

Maybe I shouldn't have said "SHOULD be mixed together"... But that's the way I've learned to do it; and it's also the way the producers and engineers in the studios we've recorded our albums have done it. If I've already decided the best balance between mics (often being the center-mic to be slightly lower), then I see no reason to change it later on. Too many options during mix makes you go crazy...

With the power of digital recording nowadays, I just cannot imagine limiting your options like that.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

My question would be "why not?" I've learned to do it this way by Fredrik Nordström in Studio Fredman, and I can't see a reason not to do it. My guess would be that Andy does the same, even though I don't think it has been discussed.

Yeah, but Andy only uses one mic... And if you actually use two mics, and merge them in one mono track, and then later realise that they are slightly out of phase (something that you didn't realise while tracking for reason X or Y), you're screwed... So I personally think it's better to keep them on separate tracks...

 

[TheStoryteller]

Sure; whatever suits you guys the best.

 

[Bob Savage]

And if you actually use two mics, and merge them in one mono track, and then later realise that they are slightly out of phase (something that you didn't realise while tracking for reason X or Y), you're screwed... So I personally think it's better to keep them on separate tracks...

Yep, and that's aside from all of the versatility during mix you lose, even if they're in perfect phase.

 

[Bob Savage]

Sure; whatever suits you guys the best.

O.K., I'm not trying to start something up here, but do you seriously not see the benefit of using seperate tracks?

 

[Exsanguis]

Even if I have single tracks for each guitar performance, I still end up with multiple tracks or channels used for them, as I mult them and eq them differently in order to combine them later as the different elements of a tone, as I was speaking about earlier in using different amps for different parts of the sound. Limiting yourself that much doesn't make much sense to me, unless you're on Pro Tools LE or using tape.

 

[TheStoryteller]

The benefit being to be able to alter the sound even more during mix, sure. But if I make sure everything is in phase and it sounds good, I don't feel that I NEED more options. To me it's like saying "why on earth use only 1 mic on the cab when you can have 2?" Well, if it sounds good it sounds good no matter how many mics, tracks or options during the mix you might have.

I bet you guys wouldn't feel as strongly for this if I got rid of the second mic, which would limit the versatility during mix in the exact same way as recording 2 mics onto 1 track.

I REALLY don't feel like arguing about this. Just do as you wanna do.

 

[Bob Savage]

I REALLY don't feel like arguing about this. Just do as you wanna do.

Don't let it get to you. I'm not dogging you, just trying to understand.

Carry on... live and let live... do as you please... don't worry, be happy... etc...

 

[kelch]

No matter how many mics you use, they should still be mixed together on the spot, and recorded onto one track. So you have to do it 4 times.

That's committing way too early for me... I'm never sure enough to commit that early so I prefer to commit during mixing... every mic to a separate track...