More love for the religion of pieces

[SueNC]

MUHAHAHAHAHA

Intensely ???? what happened ? Did a Palestinian Kid stone your Pick up truck ??

yes.

Dr. T: no.

 

[Hell_Awaits]

it's a religious thing. you wouldnt understand.

You mean its a fairy tale thing.....

 

[SueNC]

You mean its a fairy tale thing.....

nope. has nothing to do with Aesop or the Brothers Grimm, Dr. Suess or Richard Scarry, even. it's all about my faith and believing Jews to be the spiritual brethren of Christians.

i'm not telling you to believe it. i'm just answering your initial question of why i'm so loyal to the Jews.

 

[Hawng]

Well.. being a follower of Christ, I rule.
The only other person who rules as much as Jesus and I,

is....Maddox.

If you are unfamiliar with Maddox, please visit the Great Ones website....

http://www.maddox.xmission.com/

Maddox defidently rules.

 

[EerieVon]

nope. has nothing to do with Aesop or the Brothers Grimm, Dr. Suess or Richard Scarry, even. it's all about my faith and believing Jews to be the spiritual brethren of Christians.

i'm not telling you to believe it. i'm just answering your initial question of why i'm so loyal to the Jews.

Christianity is indeed an off shoot of Judaism but both sides ultimately feel the other is wrong-Jews don’t see Christ as a savior more of a heretic that according to Talmud is boiling in excrement in hell, and well Christians view themselves as the chosen people since they accept Jesus as savior and son of god, also one of the major contentions in Christianity is that the Jews are responsible for condemning Jesus to crucifixion. Fundamental Christians believe that Jews, Muslims, etc are doomed to hell for not accepting Christ.

 

[SueNC]

Christianity is indeed an off shoot of Judaism but both sides ultimately feel the other is wrong-Jews don’t see Christ as a savior more of a heretic that according to Talmud is boiling in excrement in hell, and well Christians view themselves as the chosen people since they accept Jesus as savior and son of god, also one of the major contentions in Christianity is that the Jews are responsible for condemning Jesus to crucifixion. Fundamental Christians believe that Jews, Muslims, etc are doomed to hell for not accepting Christ.

you're partly right.
the Jews dont see Christ as a savior. they're still waiting for their Messiah.
as for Christians, there may be some claiming Christianity that dont understand the difference between 'election' and 'grace,' but that's ignorance of scripture that leads to that wrong-headed thinking.

Jews are God's chosen people. they are the 'elect.'
Jesus was a Jew. he observed the same customs and rituals as Jews. before him, there were no Christians.

Jesus was condemned by the elders of the Jewish church for speaking out against the 'old Testament law,' which had been passed down by Abraham and Moses.
Jesus claimed to have come to do away with the old law and bring about a new convenant. what was worse, he started gaining followers, who were turning away from the old law, in order to follow him.

he was ruled a heretic and put to death for what they saw as his crimes of blasphemy.

when it became clear that the Jewish elders wouldnt accept Jesus' teachings, he instructed his disciples to go out amongst the Gentiles [non-Jews] and spread the news of the new covenant. by accepting who He said He was, the son of God, who came to give his life as the once-and-for-all sacrifice for all mankind, then they would become God's people by 'grace.'

that doesnt mean God gave up on the Jews. the Bible says he 'blinded' their eyes 'for a time,' until the full number of the Gentiles are gathered in.
in other words, when as many non-Jews can be saved by God's grace as can be managed, the Jews will suddenly realize the truth of who Jesus really is.

the Bible also says that God will bless those who bless His people. he's talking about the Jews.

 

[OldScratch]

Jews are God's chosen people.

Well...according to THEM and their Hebrew God they are, yes. How convenient that they have annointed themselves to so high a station...the rest of the ancient world was apparently sub-par in 'God's' eyes.
What outside the obviously Semetic origins of this belief system do you suppose explains this self-appointment as the singularly favored people - on all the earth - of the one and only 'God?' Doesn't this strike you as the least bit suspicious...and self-serving?

 

[EerieVon]

you're partly right.
the Jews dont see Christ as a savior. they're still waiting for their Messiah.
as for Christians, there may be some claiming Christianity that dont understand the difference between 'election' and 'grace,' but that's ignorance of scripture that leads to that wrong-headed thinking.

Jews are God's chosen people. they are the 'elect.'
Jesus was a Jew. he observed the same customs and rituals as Jews. before him, there were no Christians.

Jesus was condemned by the elders of the Jewish church for speaking out against the 'old Testament law,' which had been passed down by Abraham and Moses.
Jesus claimed to have come to do away with the old law and bring about a new convenant. what was worse, he started gaining followers, who were turning away from the old law, in order to follow him.

he was ruled a heretic and put to death for what they saw as his crimes of blasphemy.

when it became clear that the Jewish elders wouldnt accept Jesus' teachings, he instructed his disciples to go out amongst the Gentiles [non-Jews] and spread the news of the new covenant. by accepting who He said He was, the son of God, who came to give his life as the once-and-for-all sacrifice for all mankind, then they would become God's people by 'grace.'

that doesnt mean God gave up on the Jews. the Bible says he 'blinded' their eyes 'for a time,' until the full number of the Gentiles are gathered in.
in other words, when as many non-Jews can be saved by God's grace as can be managed, the Jews will suddenly realize the truth of who Jesus really is.

the Bible also says that God will bless those who bless His people. he's talking about the Jews.

Its a matter of interpretation, but as I was taught in bible school so many years ago, God forsake the jewish people because they crucified his son, his chosen representative. The priests would go on and explainthat this is the reason why the jews have tormented and hated ever since.

Having said that, organized religion is BS, most rule over their disciples thru fear-fear of damnation, etc. A temple is not a building with 4 walls, etc, if you truly believe in divine creation then you are the temple. Catholic church, Baptists, Muslims, Jews, etc all have bent the same basic idea to conform with what they feel you should know, how you should act, and have described their idea of divine retribution if you fail to live or act as they seem fit

Organized religion is a cancer and is responsible for more bloodshed than any other reason...IMO

 

[SueNC]

Well...according to THEM and their Hebrew God they are, yes. How convenient that they have annointed themselves to so high a station...the rest of the ancient world was apparently sub-par in 'God's' eyes.
What outside the obviously Semetic origins of this belief system do you suppose explains this self-appointment as the singularly favored people - on all the earth - of the one and only 'God?' Doesn't this strike you as the least bit suspicious...and self-serving?

i understand why you feel this way. i can see how it would be kind of a 'slap' if you werent Jewish and you read in the Bible that the Jews are God's 'chosen,' but you're missing the bigger message of the scripture.

it actually isnt 'self-serving' at all. if the Bible was a Jewish ego-stroke, wouldnt it be more favorable towards the Jews, all the way through? time and again, Jesus speaks out against the Jews for their disbelief. it spoke of all the hardships the Jews were going to face, because of their disbelief and historically [think: holocaust], the Jews havent had it easy.

God 'blinded' the Jews and said he'd let them go through a certain amount of hardships, for a time. it's kind of like a parent disciplining their child, but on a God-scale.
however, being the 'elect' doesnt mean the exclusion of everybody else. that's why Jesus came, to bring Jews and Gentiles alike into one union.

if the Bible was a Jewish thing, the entire book would be one, big Old Testament, but instead, Jesus came in the New Testament for the purpose of doing away with Jewish traditions, such as sacrificing animals to God [Jesus himself was the ultimate sacrifice, led to the cross to die, without saying a word in his defense... hence, one of his names, 'holy lamb of God'], not eating certain foods [Jesus said to call nothing 'unclean' that God has made], etc... the purpose being, so EVERYBODY could come together.

 

[EerieVon]

that's why Jesus came, to bring Jews and Gentiles alike into one union.

But that didnt happen, and Islam is also an offshoot of Judiaism

 

[SueNC]

But that didnt happen, and Islam is also an offshoot of Judiaism

not 'didnt' happen. hasnt happened.
as for Islam being an offshoot of Judaism, you'll have to expand on that for me. Islam came so far after Judaism or Christianity and the only thing it has in common is that pork thing.

 

[OldScratch]

i understand why you feel this way. i can see how it would be kind of a 'slap' if you werent Jewish and you read in the Bible that the Jews are God's 'chosen,' but you're missing the bigger message of the scripture.

it actually isnt 'self-serving' at all. if the Bible was a Jewish ego-stroke, wouldnt it be more favorable towards the Jews, all the way through? time and again, Jesus speaks out against the Jews for their disbelief. it spoke of all the hardships the Jews were going to face, because of their disbelief and historically [think: holocaust], the Jews havent had it easy.

God 'blinded' the Jews and said he'd let them go through a certain amount of hardships, for a time. it's kind of like a parent disciplining their child, but on a God-scale.
however, being the 'elect' doesnt mean the exclusion of everybody else. that's why Jesus came, to bring Jews and Gentiles alike into one union.

if the Bible was a Jewish thing, the entire book would be one, big Old Testament, but instead, Jesus came in the New Testament for the purpose of doing away with Jewish traditions, such as sacrificing animals to God [Jesus himself was the ultimate sacrifice, led to the cross to die, without saying a word in his defense... hence, one of his names, 'holy lamb of God'], not eating certain foods [Jesus said to call nothing 'unclean' that God has made], etc... the purpose being, so EVERYBODY could come together.

Yes, but why were Jews msytically singled out in the first place? As you even state "Jews and Gentiles" - which reads rather like, Jews...and everyone else after the fact. What made the Jew so special, so singled out, so adored by any other "God" but their own? Or for that matter, why would "God" single them out for "blindness" and similar punishment? Because this is THEIR God, their belief system to begin with. The self-serving nature of all this is quite profound and just as obvious, I think. Spiritual Supremacy if you will.
Indeed, the very persecution complex peculiar to the Jewish people from antiquity(well before any holocaust came on the scene) is itself conveniently explained by their "falling-out" with 'God' - a central theme of Evangelical Christians, again simply accepted to buttress their beliefs - but meaningless outside this Judeo-centric "Faith."

Let's face it - outside the Bible(Testaments Old and New) none of this means anything. Whether or not Jesus chided his fellow Jews for not being Hebrew enough, or not abiding the "Law" closely enough, is neither here nor there, unless you accept the whole Judeo-centric premise upon which all this is based. What reason, outside this archaic Hebrew scripture would you have for believing Jews to be a "chosen" people?

 

[Arg_Hamster]

Theology, the thinking mans circle jerk.

 

[EerieVon]

not 'didnt' happen. hasnt happened.
as for Islam being an offshoot of Judaism, you'll have to expand on that for me. Islam came so far after Judaism or Christianity and the only thing it has in common is that pork thing.

Quoting here:


Muslims do not regard Muhammad as the founder of a new religion but as the restorer of the original monotheistic faith of Adam, Ibrahim and other prophets whose messages had become corrupted over time (or according to some authorities only misinterpreted).Like Judaism, Christianity, and the Bahá'í Faith, Islam is an Abrahamic religion

Muslims believe that "Islam is the eternal religion, described in the Qur'an as 'the primordial nature upon which God created mankind.'Further the Qur'an states that the proper name Muslim was given by Abraham. As a historical phenomenon, however, Islam was originated in Arabia in early 7th century. "Islamic texts depict Judaism and Christianity as prophetic successor traditions to the teachings of Abraham. The Qur'an calls Jews and Christians "People of the Book," and distinguishes them from polytheists. However, Muslims believe that the previously revealed scriptures, the Tawrat (Torah), and the Injil (Gospels), had become distorted as indicated in the Qur'an, either in interpretation, textually, or both.

 

[SueNC]

Yes, but why were Jews msytically singled out in the first place? As you even state "Jews and Gentiles" - which reads rather like, Jews...and everyone else after the fact. What made the Jew so special, so singled out, so adored by any other "God" but their own? Or for that matter, why would "God" single them out for "blindness" and similar punishment? Because this is THEIR God, their belief system to begin with. The self-serving nature of all this is quite profound and just as obvious, I think. Spiritual Supremacy if you will.
Indeed, the very persecution complex peculiar to the Jewish people from antiquity(well before any holocaust came on the scene) is itself conveniently explained by their "falling-out" with 'God' - a central theme of Evangelical Christians, again simply accepted to buttress their beliefs - but meaningless outside this Judeo-centric "Faith."

Let's face it - outside the Bible(Testaments Old and New) none of this means anything. Whether or not Jesus chided his fellow Jews for not being Hebrew enough, or not abiding the "Law" closely enough, is neither here nor there, unless you accept the whole Judeo-centric premise upon which all this is based. What reason, outside this archaic Hebrew scripture would you have for believing Jews to be a "chosen" people?

i have no idea why the Jews were singled out, but Jesus was a Jew, this much we know.

and apparently, you've never read the Bible or didnt get what i said earlier. Jesus didnt chide the Jews for not abiding the law. He came to get rid of the law, which is why they turned on him.
as for God making them 'blind' to who Christ was, for a time, that was necessary because they rejected him and the word he was trying to deliver. they didnt believe he was who he said he was.

the Jews havent had it easy. they're not raking in many perks for being the 'elect,' unless you count that part in the Bible where God says His people will have battles, but never lose a war and that anybody that blesses His people, He will bless.
with that, you have to consider all the forces that have come against the Jewish people and the nation of Israel and the eventual outcome. Israel is a tiny little dot in the middle of the Middle East. they're surrounded by people who hate them and have vowed time and again to 'push them into the sea,' yet, they're still there. they've been hit time and again, but they always hit back harder and it drives the liberals nuts that they wont just roll over and let themselves be bombed into oblivion. :Smug:
then think about the US. we've always supported an Israel state and we're the most successful, free nation in the world. we're the last real 'superpower.'

is all this a coincidence? it seems really unlikely.

 

[SueNC]

Quoting here:


Muslims do not regard Muhammad as the founder of a new religion but as the restorer of the original monotheistic faith of Adam, Ibrahim and other prophets whose messages had become corrupted over time (or according to some authorities only misinterpreted).Like Judaism, Christianity, and the Bahá'í Faith, Islam is an Abrahamic religion

Muslims believe that "Islam is the eternal religion, described in the Qur'an as 'the primordial nature upon which God created mankind.'Further the Qur'an states that the proper name Muslim was given by Abraham. As a historical phenomenon, however, Islam was originated in Arabia in early 7th century. "Islamic texts depict Judaism and Christianity as prophetic successor traditions to the teachings of Abraham. The Qur'an calls Jews and Christians "People of the Book," and distinguishes them from polytheists. However, Muslims believe that the previously revealed scriptures, the Tawrat (Torah), and the Injil (Gospels), had become distorted as indicated in the Qur'an, either in interpretation, textually, or both.

ah... just because Muslims say: 'we're just like you guys!' doesnt make it so. Mohammed was a child molestor, a murderer and possibly insane. he tried to position himself in the same light as Jesus, who's ministry was well established before Mohammed was born, and he found some equally insane people to follow him and help him expand his cult by force.

 

[fah-q]

Theology, the thinking mans circle jerk.

Your posts are never real long but, they are always top-notch. I often get a chuckle out of your posts.

 

[Arg_Hamster]

Your posts are never real long but, they are always top-notch. I often get a chuckle out of your posts.

*Tips my hat*

 

[Schurl]

then think about the US. we've always supported an Israel state and we're the most successful, free nation in the world. we're the last real 'superpower.'

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I always wondered what the United States are getting back for the welfare checks they give to Israel.

 

[SueNC]

I always wondered what the United States are getting back for the welfare checks they give to Israel.

well, now ya know.