Mother Earth is dying soon !

[The Nomad]

Originally posted by niniel
Do you guys really think that if you could make people realize that they're killing themselves, they would do something. Nearly everyone knows what's happening, but it all comes down to the importance of making profit...

To a large extent, it is due to capitalism, but that's only because the largest SINGLE producers of various polution and what not are the corporations. But large enough groups of people can also make a positive impact. Reduced auto usage, and so on would have quite an impact if 10% of the western world did something. But that probably won't happen. And that's main reason I don't go out of my way to recycle and so on.

It's the same reason I don't really believe that my vote really counts. Sure, if all the people like me changed our ways, we can make quite a difference. BUT if I change my ways, it will not cause anyone else to change their ways, so I'll keep my slightly destructive ways.

 

[niniel]

I think we should simply stop using polluting energy sources, especially since they won't last eternally, and swich to more nature friendly energy type. Electricity is not that bad. But we would start wars if we stop usin fuel...profit is still the issue.

Why do you think I asked your views on capitalism anyways? It's all linked to it...everything...it is our death.

And yeah, we definitly need a reduction of population. And to change our alimentation...like less meat and less abuse...

 

[Andrej]

It seems that the people and their government don't think 50 years forward. The horizon is 4 years, to the next election. Thats democracy

 

[Andrej]

Perhaps the Chinese do?

 

[niniel]

They won't kill the Earth cause there's no nuclear bomb that's big enough (and luckily won't ever be)...

Unfortunately, I've heard there is...and that's why they try to avoid using nuclear technology for warfare...one might use a minor bomb, the other a more powerful and so on, until one stupid enough uses one too powerful, and oops, it's the end of earth. And yes, we are stupid enough(as a race, not as individuals, even though some are). The concept of "if I can't have her, no one will" that some men apply for love can be applied to other things...

ex: If I can't ru;le the world, no one will...If I can't control the global economy, no one will...etc...

 

[heather]

i've often wondered about how technology is effectively destroying nature. its a somewhat unthankful observation, as nature would have selected against me quite a long time ago if not for technology. so the length of my lifetime was so graciously extended by those men before me whom made leaps and bounds in the medical field. however, not only has the general length of life been expounded, the overall quantity of life has grown exponentially.
at any rate, this is simply a matter of biology. a species may encounter a limit for their capacity, and they inevitably die off. it seems people often forget that human is simply a species like every other. if we continue to test our boundaries, nature will kill us off if we don't first take care of it ourselves. disease versus warfare.
our society has no biology, we have 'according to a recent study...' on the evening news. we have no concept of any boundaries. nature is something we watch on television, and we pretend to care about the extinction statistics we actually ignore: because we're not on that list... yet.

 

[Allison]

that's pretty sobering. And yes, it is USA - namely Bush's - fault. People like him in power are the reason this earth is in the state it's in. His interests are purely in oil. All of his people in his high positions are in the oil industry. He would drill on his mother's grave if he thought there was oil to be had from there.
I think that people - Americans - need to get things in perspective and quit wasting resources as if they are never ending. Do people really NEED some fucking SUV or huge truck? That burns 4 times the petrol of a standard car. And why not have a better public transport system like in Europe? Take some of these fucking cars off the road. I'd be the first to park mine. Everyone from age 16 up here has a car. Why can't schoolkids take the fucking school bus - they don't need to be driving to school. All this waste of resources. Fucking Las Vegas wastes more water than you could talk about. We have people who think they are too good to BUY a fucking house, they have to have one built. I cannot BEGIN to tell you how much woodlands and wetlands have been destroyed just in my area of Florida for the sake of these people's vanity and greed. So much waste here. If you recycle then you are considered "cheap". Well I guess I'm cheap. For most people here recycling is beneath them.
This shit angers me so much......I certainly try to do my bit to help, but it amounts to nothing up against the multitudes here who just do not care. But I do it anyway just hoping that people can maybe take an example from some crazed heathen woman.

Want to read something that will render you speechless? It's quite long, but read it. You will then see how LITTLE we have really learnedin 50,000 years.

http://sphinxtemple.virtualave.net/articles/articles.html
scroll down the page to the article called:
Atlantis: History of the Golden Ages

 

[The Nomad]

Originally posted by Allison
And why not have a better public transport system like in Europe?

I agree with most of what you said, but developing a public transport system like Europe is more difficult in the US because overall the population density is much lower. And within individual cities, the sprawl we already have makes that impossible. But that's one of the things I hated about the suburbs, that you have to drive to go ANYWHERE. But I'm in the city now, and I use my car 90% less than I used to (and I BIKED to work today! 21.5 miles!).

Anyway, we also don't have funds nor the motivation. If we did increase taxation on petrol to the levels of Europe, it'd be much easier, but we'd be paying over $1/quart of gas. Which would probably reduce the amount of driving that people do within cities, but I really have no desire to take the train down to St. Louis. It takes twice as long as by car, and that's a lot of time.

 

[Fleischwolf]

what about alternative fuel? i'm sure there allready would be some car running with H, if there wouldn't be this oil lobby! but what can you do about that!

 

[Allison]

Alternative fuel would be fantastic, but like you said.........oil lobby.........and another thing is a lack of "want to" by the government here.

 

[The Nomad]

Originally posted by Fleischwolf
what about alternative fuel? i'm sure there allready would be some car running with H, if there wouldn't be this oil lobby! but what can you do about that!

H2 cars are in development. Sure, we can make them, but they need to get cheaper. And then there's a huge infrastructure hill that must be gotten over as you change over all the gas stations from petrol to H2. And the safety issues for H are much more important than for gasoline.

As for the oil lobby, sure they make A LOT of money off of gasoline for cars, but there's still diesel trucks (I don't think H2 engines can pull an 18-wheeler for some time... but I do know of some H2 buses in some cities), jet fuel, detergents, PLASTICS, and, ironically, H2 production. Oil refineries are LARGE producers of hydrogen. Much of it is used internally, but I believe some of it is exported. Believe me, H2 is not taken from the atmosphere.

And BECAUSE H2 is produced from oil, it still produces Carbon Dioxide. It would be better if you can use the HUGE natural gas surplus we have in the world, but H2 has the same transportation issues that NG does. But the reaction for production of H2 from methane is:
CH4 + 2H20 ---> 4H2 + CO2.

So don't start thinking that H2 cars will solve the greenhouse problem.

Similarly with electric cars! In the end, they still produce CO2.

 

[Allison]

I think they SHOULD tax the fuck out of petrol here but you know what, they'll never do it because the people who make these decisions are the same ones driving the SUV's. When the petrol prices went up last year - people are barking about having to pay $1.50 for one gallon of petrol - they've never lived in Europe) - guess what the governor of florida does........he suspends the fuel tax temporarily. so the big SUV drivers could "adjust their budget accordingly". Go figure. But he has NO qualms at all about deep budget cuts to the schools. I wonder what the fucking lottery money is going to because that's supposed to all go to education.

 

[Ziuwarian]

Hydrogen powered cars are more than just in planning, they are being "tested" (tested as in used by the firms that develloped them, for the last 10 years or so....), they ARE ready.

And solar-powered ones as well. Even diesel is being made our of plants these days, it's just slightly more expensive than the oil-based version...

So far, every pro-environmental step done by the industry was merely an alibi, cause doing REAL steps would really cut their profits...

 

[heather]

there is a saying... a boat is a hole in the water, surrounded by wood, into which one pours money.
an SUV follows the same thinking, how much vapid air does a person need to enclose in a vehicle? new to the market: the ford abomination. these things run over children... alot more often then you'd think.
i agree with you allison, wholeheartedly.
however, the florida lottery is paying my college tuition, so that much i cannot complain about.
then again, the only reason i've received a quality education is because i live in a good area. there are so many schools in this state that are grossly under funded.

 

[Allison]

I am very glad to hear that at least some of the money is going to education Heather which university do you go to? What are you studying?

 

[The Nomad]

Lotteries are often used to fund education.

And Allison, you're right, we SHOULD tax petrol more, but it probably wouldn't be used for transportation expenditures because... well, for the normal reasons.

And I realized last night that I made some blatant bad assumptions in my hydrogen rant yesterday. Transportation and fuel pumping (including the infrastructure) wouldn't be too bad to change over because they'd transport and pump methanol, not hydrogen. And the methanol would be reformed to hydrogen and burned in the car. You'd still produce some CO2, but I have no clue what the rate would be compared to modern cars...

Ziu, you're right, there are some H2 cars out there. And the busses I mentioned. And my company is working on home generators of electricty running on natural gas. Should be helpful in California. We don't have the expertise to work on cars, so we won't do that...
I don't know a damn thing about biodiesel.

 

[Allison]

That tax money could be used to fund the project to get these hydrogen cars on the road.

 

[The Wanderer]

I'd want to see a better study or a better report of that study in some more prominant journal before I'd start freaking out. Yeah, shits bad, but I think they are sensationalizing in the article. As far as who's to blame, USA, or whatever I don't even want to go tehre. I don't think any one nation is responsible. Hell, England started the industrial revolution. So there!

 

[heather]

university of central florida, i'm a senior biology undergrad... on the way to pharmacy school.

 

[The Wanderer]

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