my drummer is dumb when it comes to theory

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FatesDemiseguitarist

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Dec 2, 2002
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The kid has been playing for 12 years he was in jazz band throughout highschool . he is a pretty good drummer but when it comes to time signatures he is stupid...he thinks everything is in 4/4 no matter what fucked up timing it is in, and i love to play in odd time so its frustraighting me ..he doesnt listen to me when i tell him something is in 5/4 or 7/4 or what ever it is ..iv done everything but bring in my korg metronome in to show him that he is playing out of time ...and we allmost threw down the other night .....but the rest of the band isnt seeing it from my point of veiw ...they feel he is a great drummer and that theory and anything else important is bullshit and dont want to hear it...my singer hates prog music ,my second guitarist hates anything "happy" sounding ,but the music we create is fucking awesome ...i dont know what to do ....i feel im the only one who cares about the technical side of music.................btw i havnt quit yet because other metal musician are about as hard to find as a hippie at a voting booth...so im fucked:mad: :mad: :mad: :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
Hmmm, sorry to hear that situation. In fact it's more or less like mine: I'm trying to find people for a band and everybody seems to think that buying an electric is as much as it takes to become a musician. I'm really pissed off with that kind of shit, because I've been studying classical guitar for 10 years, and still I don't feel that I can play electric so well (that's normal, of course). The funny thing is that I tell them "I can't play guitar, cause I'm not a good electric guitarist" but I play better than them! :)

So, it's probably a matter of people being BORRED and trying to find arguments to back this boredom in a philosophical way. Or some of them really believe that theory ruins music.

My only advice is: try to explain them what theory will give to them as musicians and you as a band. Talk it over and try to convince them start lessons and if they don't like it they can stop. Tell them that theory will NOT put borders around their creativity; it will help them express their feelings in music. Tell them that you may have a perfect idea on a beautiful airplane but you won't really construct it unless you have the KNOWLEDGE to do so. It's the same with music. You might come up with a great idea, but you will either ruin it to make it TOO typical if you don't know how to work on it. If there are for example 10 different ways to 'harmonize' a piece, one would only think of the 3 or 4.

If it all fails, I think I'd leave the band if I were you.

BTW, I'm not into prog metal... (that was out of subject hehe ;))
 
Here's an option. Stay with those guys and just make some music. BUT....go out and buy yourself some home recording equipment and begin to do some solo stuff. What's intersting with that route is that you can start to find musicians in other cities, states or countries to work with. With the digital format nowdays you just burn the info to cd and send it off to someone else to work on. What you miss out on here is the live shows, so if you enjoy doing that stay with the band.
 
Well, if your drummer will only play in 4/4 and doesn't want to do anything different... looks like you'll need to write your music to suit.

Either that, leave the band, or start a side project, or record your own stuff.

Pretty simple really... it seems that overall, you're happy with your band... So, don't preach to them... record your own stuff and show them...
 
I wish I was more knowlegable when it comes to theory. Especially when it comes to time signatures. I really need to start up lessons again.

As far as drumming goes, I woudl think that knowing and understanding time sinatures would be twice as important since the drummer keeps time.
 
Our drummer was that way too. He played every song the same. Everytime me or the other guitarist came in with a hot new riff, we'd end up having to change it to fit his standard 4/4. Totally wrecked the riffs. He was also notorious for starting to play to a riff before he even heard it all. I'd start playing something new and before I could even get to the rhythm change or bridge part or whatever - he's playing. How the hell can you play drums to a riff when you've never heard it!! Easy when you play the same damn beat for every song.
So what did I do? I Quit.
Being in a band was great, but when you're writing everything in the first place and then re-writing it to fit the self declared drum god's beat, it ain't worth it. Sucked the life outta all of us.
 
yeah, i've found that the less humans in a band leads to the least amount of compromise. it's nice just having one of your best friends as the other member of the band.

(FWIW, we fired our drummer.)
 
yes he figures because he was in a highschool jazz band for for years that he knows what dynamic progressive drumming is...yeah jazz is technical and all but that doesnt mean you become a meytal drum god of time because you played jazz for a few years....im buying a metronome w/time signature capability for my rehersal space just for reference so i can shut him up when he tries to tell me what time signature a riff is in
 
man that sucks. i have the same problem, i play with my brother (he plays drums) i play guitar. I have been playing for 6 years now an i am studying music in college and so forth, how ever my brother dosent ever sit down on drums for 30 min a day and he never wants to play, and the same problem when i show him a riff he plays over it b4 i finish
 
Originally posted by FatesDemiseguitarist
....im buying a metronome w/time signature capability for my rehersal space just for reference so i can shut him up when he tries to tell me what time signature a riff is in
Click to expand...

They have metronomes with time signature capability?

I must get one as well... how much would one cost?
 
He can't be a good drummer if he knows only 4/4!! A good drummer isn't the one who can beat the drums till they break, but the one who can do complicated rythm combinations and doesn't go out of tempo.
I suggest you to first compare him and the metronome, and then teach him some stuff. A good musician HAS to know some theory.
 
I take pride in being ablt to keep time in all differnet signitures. :D Maybe being in the school band helps. Having to read music in all different times.:)
 
Write a riff in 13/8 and ask him to play along. After three times through the riff, ask him to see if he is starting at the same point as you. If he's playing in 4/4 without syncopations, he'll be out of time. That should illustrate the point very succinctly to him.

Personally, I don't know how anyone can be serious about being a musician and not wanting to understand how it works: this necessitates learning at least the rudiments of rhythm, melody and harmony; and I'd hope that this would inspire a deeper investigation, perhaps going to music college, as it did with me.

EDIT: There's a device by Roland (or Korg?) called a Rhtyhm Watch that allows you to program time signatures and tempo changes.
But there are tons of alternatives to these expensive decvices. Yamaha produced a really small sequencer with some onboard sounds (the Yamaha YSQ or something similar) which allowed users to program time signature and tempo changes. You can pick those up very cheaply now, and they do the same thing.
 
Originally posted by Eramaajarvi
Hey, FallingAcesion, how old are you?
And could I hear ya somehow? I'm always interested in hearing good musicians :)
Click to expand...
Not very old.:p

Actually, I'm a mere 16 year old who sits around all day posting on UM and drumming.:) Oh well, I try. As of now, you can't hear me for I have no way to record myself. Besides my brother's fisherprice tape player! :lol:
 
I don't see music theory as being the most important aspect of music. Sure, those who want to be in technical and prog bands can study music theory all they want, but the main point of music as a whole is to produce something that feels good and sounds good. You don't need to know any theory to do that (though obviously it helps to some extent). In fact, if a band concentrates too much on technicalities it can ruin the music as it sucks the heart and soul from it.

Music is about playing what you feel from the heart, not solely about time signatures and other minor technicalities.
 
Originally posted by Lychgate
Music is about playing what you feel from the heart, not solely about time signatures and other minor technicalities.
Click to expand...
that's most certainly true. when i ring at someone's door, for example, they always know it's me. that's because i play with my heart. i haven't found yet someone who rings at the door following odd time signatures.
 
This is kind of a touchy subject. I will say that when I took a year of theory in college...it kicked my ass. I honestly considered switching majors when I couldn't get a lot of the aspects of theory:lol: . I don't think that all avenues of theory are necessary. If this guy has been playing for that long and he was in jazz band...he should already know his time signatures. I didn't wait to learn time signatures until I took theory, that's nuts! I have been a musician since I was 9. You inevitably play in different time signatures...there's plenty of classical music pieces out there in crazy time formats. I think it's a pretty basic concept...if he isn't willing to learn well then damn, like some others have already mentioned, go on your own.
 
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