My Ramblings

[blackrose2]

Well if I'm annoying anybody here let me know and I'll go wonder off to my other forums. Aparently the moderator didn't want to approve me for the alternative Therion forum because he felt I wasn't respectful of all peoples. Which is entirely untrue and only based on my white nationalist leanings and I suppose my interest in I.Q.

At any rate, I think I have been oblivious to the culture that surounds these bands. It's like fans adoring their beloved group. I guess I am supposed to be really humble when approaching these rock stars. They seem like regular people to me. Several people that was in my high school class are signed to major record labels and played on American radio. I mean I wasn't personal friends with them, but there doesn't seem to be anything special about them.

Though I do love music produced by therion.

Anyway I wanted to make a seperate thread as I realized gear talk with kristian is mainly ask Kristian a question and he answers but related to a comment I made in there (which I guess nobody really cares about) I was saying how you tune the guitar super low with bassy strings and all that crap and high tone it. For that deep metal sound. I noticed on Demonoid they get the same effect basically by putting the guitars high and then having the bass fill in the low. So it comes out like the same sound. Whereas the Zakk Wylde type approach is like the guitar is taking more of a lead role and filling the lower end (as well as high to a small degree) which has a slightly different outcome but both have that bassy feeling, exept I guess you can do more keeping the guitar high. I just cranked up black label and its like the bass is basically at a similar tone as the guitar where you hardly notice the bass- I love the sound. So I guess it's two totally different methods that both sound kick *ss. It's like on the evocation by Demonoid :47 seconds into it you have the deep heavy sound. Demonoid does it with the bass playing filling the lower ends- black label does it with the guitar actually being bassy as h*ll. Wild comparison of two different styles of set up. I'm going back and forth from demonoid and black label.

Anyway I got my hands on some more Demonoid paying 99 cents a download. I have to go against my original comments. Songs like evocation are catchy and heavy/evil at the same time. It also does remind me of like a darker version of Therion but very Therion like. At first I came here from Therion forums but I'm starting to become a true fan

 

[Hunger my Consort]

Oh man......get the album. I dream of being in a mosh when "Death" plays and hits it's high points.

 

[Kristian Niemann]

For that deep metal sound. I noticed on Demonoid they get the same effect basically by putting the guitars high and then having the bass fill in the low. So it comes out like the same sound. Whereas the Zakk Wylde type approach is like the guitar is taking more of a lead role and filling the lower end (as well as high to a small degree) which has a slightly different outcome but both have that bassy feeling, exept I guess you can do more keeping the guitar high.

I know what you mean. Riders... has a pretty thin, middy guitartone that doesnt have much low-end in it. I did the best I could at the time but now Im not really happy with that sound. It doesnt punch you in the bowels! It couldve worked if the bass was really fat and prominent but unfortunately its a bit low in the mix.
The new cd is something completely different.
It has the coolest guitartone Ive heard in a long time AND the bass is super-fat and aggressive and it goes down LOW! Im extremely happy with it and I hope thats still the case when the record is mixed and mastered! I hope it will come out like a combination of the two types of sound you mentioned: really fat, chunky, screaming guitars but the bass (since there are A LOT of reaming, shredding basswork here!) is still prominent in both the high and low registers.

 

[deathmetalpat]

I noticed that you say you were going to use the isocab with the Celestion Vintage 30.I have a spider 212 with a pair of these and they sound great.It took me about 200+ hours to really break these in and get a good sound.It's too bad you can't use a 40 watt amp cranked up all the way in your living/studio space.I find a nice small amp cranked up has a better recording sound than a 4x12.How loud is that cab with all the padding and is it hard to find a good mic placement inside?Do you listen to the sound with headphones or a little speaker?I live in a single house at the end of a street and can get any with a loud guitar amp but drums are a no-no where I live.

 

[Kristian Niemann]

If I crank my 2:90 up to oblivion its still pretty loud even with the isocab so I keep it at a moderate 5. I can record at home in my flat then, no probs.
Its only a single speaker anyway so I would blow it up quite quickly if I played really loud.

But I dont like to record really loud anyway, the speaker just sounds bad and distressed. That can be cool sometimes for some out-of-control soloing type deal but for precise, chunky rhythm...forget it. But then again, Im not exactly Bob Rock either when it comes to knowledge about recording techniques. I just go for what I think sounds cool; I have the luxury of time to experiment. Id be no good as a recording engineer in a commercial studio, as I have no clue as to how to get sounds quickly for other people.

Mic placement is very easy.

I use monitors for recording but for reference I always check the sounds on my ipod, stereo, computer, someone elses stereo etc.

 

[blackrose2]

Most bands have that higher pitched guitar tone and it works pretty well usually. Maiden, Disturbed, Godsmack etc. Seems like mainly the really hardcore heavy bands go into super low tunings (drop tuning) and real bassy guitars. Which I'm just in love with Zakk Wyldes sound. And I love how he makes this hard hitting mid paced (not real fast) perfect headbanging album then makes his "hangover" music which all melow and soul-full. Just for me personally I can't play much but sense I used his strings and generall settings it just sounds so awsome you don't even need to play good. Like when you deaden the strings it just sounds so good and bassy. But it sound like his second guitarist (who hardly doesn't play anything anyway other than the same thing or similar on top of his- which winds up sounding awsome anyway) sounds like his second guy is pretty standard thin sounding higher tone. When you play them on top of each other it sounds really good (the heavy bassy guitars under the thin ones- playing the same rythem basically).

 

[BloodLegion]

Hell, I love that midrange tone on Riders! A guitar that has too much low end will bury/be buried by the bass and the kick drums. Not a good idea. I dunno how BLS or all the other super bassy bands do it, but if you listened to Brutal Death bands like Suffocation or Cattle Decapitation (bands that go completely berzerk!) you'll notice that their guitar tone is very midrange-y. So the bass and drums have their share of the limelight in mix and subsequently on the record.

 

[blackrose2]

I thought the high guitars on riders had its charm too. Well they weren't high but "normal" I guess lol No, I don't think it gets drowned out. Usually the way you play it you can't really "hear" the bass. Even sometimes the bass drum. It blends with the guitar and you 'feel' it. You think its the guitar that sounds so great but its really all the stuff behind it giving it power. like listen to most parts of most metal songs and unless you are really into recording music you probably can't hear the bass. But it's there giving power to guitars. Which seems like Johan is playing differently now with more progressive bass that you can hear more.

Take Dark Venus Persephone. Unless you are really good at noticing it you probably don't "hear" the bass outright. You feel it. Or like melek taus. Turning guitar lower you still "feel" the bass. Though it's even less noticeable. Or like midgard the bass and the bass drum are kind of doing the same thing. Therion may not be as extreme as some other songs where you can't hear the bass at all but it shows the point. Lemuria/Sirius B and SOTRs probably has some of the best examples. Voyage of Gurjeff etc.

It's both good sounds just depends on what you want it to sound and feel like I guess.