Natural kick sound problem

[::XeS::]

Ok the problem is this: everytime I mic a kick drum I've never satisfied by the raw sound I get.
I use a Sennheiser e602 (maybe it can be the problem..don't know) and everytime also if I go up with the tuning I get a very bassy kick sound...I mean, lot of ultra low frequencies and not too much attack and "thump".
I use a pillow and a blanket as dampening but these ultra low frequencies are always there.
Here some examples:

Natural kick drum: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1436721/Drums_K.mp3
Eq kick drum: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1436721/Drums_K_eq.mp3

and another recorded drums with kick tuned higher:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1436721/Our_K.mp3

Don't know if it's normal for you...I heard some e602 samples and the bass frequencies were much more controlled and there was much more "click" on the top end. And I don't think that tuning up more and more can solve the problem because a super high kick sucks too...
Any idea? Does it sounds ok for you?

 

[onetruth]

hey there.....the samples dont sound too bad to my ears. they're certainly not terrible. how about borrowing a different mic to see if that helps if you're not happy with the current sound? an AKG D112 would be a good place to start....can't go far wrong with those. Also, try different mic positions. Not sure where you normally place the mic but aiming it at where the beater hits the skin should get you more click and attack. best to put the mic on a slight angle too rather than dead straight on or you get some weird boominess. I like to use a front skin with a hole cut in the right hand side so the mic naturally comes in on an angle which is directed slightly away from the snare to reduce bleed. if you're still lacking the "thump" then you could try a second mic outside the drum pointed directly at the front skin and then blend the 2 signals. you'll need to move the 2nd mic around a bit to get it in phase but the 2 should compliment each other quite nicely.

not sure what skins you currently use but i can recommend the evans EMAD....they're the fucking bomb!! not really much need for pillows or blankets when you've got one of those....although you may want a very small blanket touching the resonant head to dampen it slightly.

as far as tuning goes, I always tune the batter head so there are no wrinkles and thats it. for the front head I normally use a tama tension watch and shoot for maybe 1 or 2 on the dial.

 

[onetruth]

i forgot to say....put the D112 really close to the batter head where the beater hits to get lots of attack with less resonance, or try moving it further back towards the hole to get more of the resonance of the drum. you'll most likely still end up having to do some cuts with eq like sucking out lots of 400hz but if you get the 1 or 2 mic's positioned right you hopefully won't need to do too much boosting with eq. hope that helps!

 

[::XeS::]

I put the mic like you said...hole in one side, mic angled aiming the point where the batters hit the skin. I tried different positions inside the kick but there is always this big amount of bottom end.
Maybe a plastic beater can give me a sound with less bass and more attack and top end... in these samples there was a felt beater.
I would like to try another mic anyway... like an RE20.

 

[zer0_c00l]

I'd reccomend you to put the mic right in the middle of the bass drums, unless the hole is too small to do it..

 

[Trevoire520]

I've got a 602. It does have a pretty massive low end but there is decent brightness to be had as well if it's actually there in your kick. If your kick doesn't have alot of attack in the first place it can be difficult to get it out with eq.

Here's a unprocessed sample from my kick. This is a Mapex M Birch with a Powerstroke 3 and a falam slam pad. No resonant head. This is tuned VERY low, finger tight on the lugs and then a half turn with the key I think. Mic is just an inch or so inside the shell I think.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1949675/602 Sample.wav

Maybe try removing the reso head from your kick? With a mic like the 602 which has such a massive low end reso heads can cause problems. I find that tuning a kick head up doesn't increase any attack, it just increases sustain, which is not a good thing for metal kicks.

 

[onetruth]

definitely use plastic beaters if you want a more clicky sound with more attack. a falam slam pad is also essential if you're not already using one. i think in glenn's drum recording tutorial he suggests taping coins or an old credit card onto the batter head where the beaters hit to get a more clicky sound.

 

[::XeS::]

I've got a 602. It does have a pretty massive low end but there is decent brightness to be had as well if it's actually there in your kick. If your kick doesn't have alot of attack in the first place it can be difficult to get it out with eq.

Here's a unprocessed sample from my kick. This is a Mapex M Birch with a Powerstroke 3 and a falam slam pad. No resonant head. This is tuned VERY low, finger tight on the lugs and then a half turn with the key I think. Mic is just an inch or so inside the shell I think.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1949675/602 Sample.wav

Maybe try removing the reso head from your kick? With a mic like the 602 which has such a massive low end reso heads can cause problems. I find that tuning a kick head up doesn't increase any attack, it just increases sustain, which is not a good thing for metal kicks.

The point is that different clients have different batters and pedals.
Sometimes the kick needs a little more tension because drummers like to have more "bouncing" from the head..
Anyway the kick I recorded the last weekend is not tunned too high, it has a kick port (it was a borrowed drums), Powerstroke and slam pad. This is one of the samples I recorded:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1436721/k nat.mp3

As you can hear it has lot more "resonance" and low ends than your, also with a pillow and a blanket to absorb some of that flutter echoes inside the kick.. and comparing my sample and your, it seems the whole "problem" is that mine has much more shit under 100Hz. If I cut everything under 100 I get attack and click because it's not buried by the ultra low woof.

 

[::XeS::]

Ps

I have the e602 II (the plastic one)

 

[scorpio01169]

I have the EMAD heads on my kit and Audix D6s just inside the hole pointed at the batterhead, love the EMADs

 

[kaomao]

Tune as low as you can and borrow a D6, you're gonna smile for years: this combo is instant magic