Nature in scandinavia

[Mantis]

I was wondering if the words "Fjall" and "berg" have the same meaning, I mean fjell means an higher mountain or viceversa or if it isn't so are they interchangeable for example Mr. V's first record "til fjalls" could also be called "til bergs" and Ulver's "Bergtatt" "Fjelltatt". And another thing, does existe another word beside "skog" to name "forest/wood" or Skog fits both of them?
Thanx

Mantis

 

[Djöfull]

in icelandic Fjall = mountain and berg= the material of which a mountain consists of rock/condensed lava/crystals etc. or a piece of the mountain.
But there are mountains here that are named with at the ending -berg
then we have fell = smaller mountain( although some bigger mountains are called that too/have such an ending as well)

Well mark means forest (or forestplain, vast open space of forest ) in scandinavian languages as far as I know

It's weird that in Icelandic the word eyðimörk (the equivalent word of Ödemark or at least its origin) has the meaning of a wilderness but it contains no trees just barren vegetationless land: used mostly for sandy desert in nowaday speech

 

[Cerebus]

The most significant difference between Fjäll and Berg, imo, is that Fjäll are the mountains positioned in the northern parts of Sweden (and the borders to Norway), and with this I mean that Fjäll has got a more geographical meaning than Berg, which can be used as any mountain desription.

 

[spaffe]

The most significant difference between Fjäll and Berg, imo, is that Fjäll are the mountains positioned in the northern parts of Sweden (and the borders to Norway), and with this I mean that Fjäll has got a more geographical meaning than Berg, which can be used as any mountain desription.

yes that's the difference imo as well

 

[Graveyardwalker]

Yeah, "fjäll" is used when you're talking 'bout old/high Scandinavian mountains... every other mountain is "berg".

 

[amf]

I use to think that fjäll are mountains that are so tall that no trees can grow on them, apart from mountain-birch (fjällbjörk) perhaps. But then again, I would call Mount Everest a berg and not a fjäll, and there's definately no trees growing there

So I think Cerebus' description is true.

 

[Guttorm]

Hmmm, interesting subject... Yes, I agree with Cerebus words as well, although I would like to add that, I've never thought of fjäll as any bare mountain, in my mind they have always been clad in snow. So, I guess I wouldn't call it "fjäll" if they doesn't contain any snow. But then, as the northern Sweden have snow for quite a long time of the year, they could be called fjäll for a decent time.
I just have a hard time imaginating a fjäll without any snow, hehe.

 

[Thrymfal]

the way it was told to me is that fjalls are mountains and bergs are cliffs. i only heard this in refernce to the island of drangey though

 

[Djöfull]

the island of drangey

In Skagafjörður!?

 

[Mantis]

It's weird that in Icelandic the word eyðimörk (the equivalent word of Ödemark or at least its origin) has the meaning of a wilderness but it contains no trees just barren vegetationless land: used mostly for sandy desert in nowaday speech[/QUOTE]

I think the best translation for Ödemark is Wasteland as Ode means desolate for this it means a barren land while for wilderness I would use Vildmark (Vild=Wild)
What you all say?

Mantis

 

[Djöfull]

I think the best translation for Ödemark is Wasteland as Ode means desolate for this it means a barren land while for wilderness I would use Vildmark (Vild=Wild)

but in ödemark Vintersorg is surely referring to forest wilderness nature without habitation = öde must mean wasteland in that sense that there are no manmade objects there

 

[spaffe]

I think the best translation for Ödemark is Wasteland as Ode means desolate for this it means a barren land while for wilderness I would use Vildmark (Vild=Wild)
What you all say?

Mantis

i don't agree with you there. ödemark would be an area where there are no people or cities for miles - that would make it "öde" meaning unihabited etc. wasteland is something barren, devoid of vegetation and impossible to cultivate

 

[Mantis]

So Ödemark best translation would be "wild land" or "wilderness land"?, another thing I'd love to know is if it exists a translation for "kitteldale" so much used by V. and Otyg, I've read the meaning in swedish where it's says it's a vale closed in all its part, as I think we cannot translate it "cauldron valley" I wonder if it's a more "scientific" name for it....

Mantis

 

[spaffe]

yes "wild land" or something similar would do good i think. perhaps "outback" would be a good one as well if it wasn't so associated with australia hm hm...

i don't know of any english word that describes an enclosed valley but perhaps there is one.

on a side note: i looked up the word that started this thread in the SAOL (a glossary of the entire swedish language) a good source to consult if one's in doubt what a word means, anyway there it says that a fjäll is: "berg i de nordiska länderna som går över trädgränsen" which translated would be "a mountain in the nordic countries (sweden, denmark, norway, finland and iceland just to clearify things further) that reaches above the treeline" so there you have it

 

[Child of Time]

And another thing, does existe another word beside "skog" to name "forest/wood" or Skog fits both of them?

I didn't know there was a difference between 'forests' and 'woods'.

 

[Colamann]

I'd say a wood is smaller compared to a forest. As für Ödemark, in German Öde or Öd means lifeless, barren or boring. So it should be a place where there is not really anything noteable. A desert or ice plains are Öd, a living forest isn't... On the other hand, the word doesn't neccessarily have to mean the same in German and Swedish.

 

[Staffan]

Fjäll = Fjäll
Alp = Alp

Fjäll with no trees = Kalfjäll

 

[Mantis]

I didn't know there was a difference between 'forests' and 'woods'.

Yes wood is smaller than forest as colamann said, anyway i've found that in all neo-latin languages there is distinction between forest and wood so I thought the same for scandinavian languages

 

[Colamann]

We have it in German (Wald/Gehölz) so it could also exist in other Germanic (I think the new term is Indo-European...) languages.

 

[Mantis]

We have it in German (Wald/Gehölz) so it could also exist in other Germanic (I think the new term is Indo-European...) languages.

Does it exists "Holt"? I know it existed in Old English (at least in Beowulf) what about "baum" it's only a tree?
I used to think that in swedish skog was a forest and lund a wood but it seems lund is smaller than a wood (a thicket/grove)

Mantis