Jester Slave
Narcissist
I have to say I am really pissed now that they didn't reschedule their Hungarian show. Whatever you think about this record, it has a ton of crowd-pleaser choruses, and they aren't (all) as asinine as Battles'.
New album Foregone out February 2023
- Thread starter TheJestersDoor
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I was at live show just in November and the growls for singles, as well as other songs, were legit. I know you're biased towards Anders, but come on, he's been doing great in that department since a while now. You can hear that even with his Lamb of God performance, where guy from Chimaira sounded like an amateur.
Legit bad. I mean, the guy is clearly suffering live while doing the growls. You think their fine and that's ok with me. But, the clea parts, which this album is flooded with, unless there has been some kind of miracle, are going to be a mess live. Dude, saying that he cannot sing live is not being biased towards him, it's so far, a fact.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
After 3 beers and 2 shots? Me, of course.
- Jul 25, 2016
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They definitely released the better songs as singles. Having listened to the full album once now the only non-singl3s that have my interest are Pure Light Of Mind and In The Dark. Cynosure is also cool but it doesn't go anywhere. Props to Tanner's drums on it though.
ThePhobiac
be at ease
I caved because I'm weak lmao
Halfway through and my general thoughts are that they're almost back on track, but not quite. Shades of Battles/ITM here and there, which is disappointing, but most of that is coming from Anders' vocal melodies. If they can find the will to drop Benson next time, this could end up being, in hindsight, a transitional album that leads to a true comeback.
The first half of this album is better than the entirety of Battles and ITM for me, so I'm hoping the second half maintains the same quality.
@DE4life You correctly predicted me somehow liking Pure Light of Shit, lmfao
Halfway through and my general thoughts are that they're almost back on track, but not quite. Shades of Battles/ITM here and there, which is disappointing, but most of that is coming from Anders' vocal melodies. If they can find the will to drop Benson next time, this could end up being, in hindsight, a transitional album that leads to a true comeback.
The first half of this album is better than the entirety of Battles and ITM for me, so I'm hoping the second half maintains the same quality.
@DE4life You correctly predicted me somehow liking Pure Light of Shit, lmfao
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The thing is, he's not. He keeps same intensity, same harshness, same deep growls throughout the entire set. I saw him struggle on couple of occasions, but it's so much different this time around. Since he started using deep growl instead of his usual fry harsh, it just sounds well.
As far as cleans go, I didn't touch that topic, as it's fair bashing Anders for that (and even more, for god awful autotune). The thing is, it really does sound better in live environment, with noise level of different instruments, crowd, backing vocals and playback, so surely, it will suck on YT, but it kind of works when you see them, which is fine for me, though obviously, I'd prefer if Anders could hit Speed's notes, that would be awesome. Like I've mentioned, I don't want to touch that topic, as it's been done a thousand times, so I specifically mentioned harsh vocals that you keep underestimating.
Edit: Also, one more thing. I'm not sure if my terminology is correct, especially since it's not my native language, but I consider growling singing (and my Wiki tends to agree), so yeah, he can sing live, just not the cleans.
Will be listening a bit later. Not really expecting to like any of the non-singles very much based on these comments :/ a bit bummed by Ciko not being around either. Puts a downer on things. Really hope that dude is alright.
- Jul 25, 2016
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A dialogue in B flat minor had me until the chorus. Same with End The Transmission. The Only song that really sticks out to me is Bleeding Out, the only redeeming factor there is Chris's solo. The rest of the album is a solid improvement on the last 2 albums and I agree, if they get a different vocal producer for the next one, this could be a real turning point for the band.
I tend to agree. When I saw them in 2019 at least his growls were excellent, best I've ever heard from Anders. Cleans are obviously shit but when you're there live you don't really notice. It's much more glaring on YT vids. With that said there are some songs where Anders' lack of confidence leads to disappointment. He can't do the WTDSD cleans so he'll often just straight up not do them at all.and expect the crowd to sing it for him. That's pretty lame. On one chorus sure, fine, but all of them? Bruh.
I would agree that the best songs are generally released; though I have to say "End the Transmission" and surprisingly, Pure light of Mind are pretty good.
The latter is definitely a cut above the ballad-y garbage on Battles. It has some energy and the production somehow makes it quite enjoyable.
The former was pretty bad on first listen, but it's a grower for sure. The "devil" pre-chorus/bridge is really great.
In the Dark isn't bad either.
This album would be so much better with more raw vocals (ala CC)
The latter is definitely a cut above the ballad-y garbage on Battles. It has some energy and the production somehow makes it quite enjoyable.
The former was pretty bad on first listen, but it's a grower for sure. The "devil" pre-chorus/bridge is really great.
In the Dark isn't bad either.
This album would be so much better with more raw vocals (ala CC)
OK here's my review:
The Beginning of All Things - Can't go wrong with nice acoustics and harmony. Very Bjorn-esque. Cute little tune, but nothing special. Almost like an afterthought. Could have benefited from developing the basic idea more, but works well as an intro. 7.5/10
State of Slow Decay - Works better after that intro than on its own. Good ATG cover, with some shitty IF "evil" riffs and "catchy" chorus added. Nothing against the song, but quite forgettable. 6/10
Meet Your Maker - Still impersonating a metal band here. Obvious STYE vibes + mandatory Battles chorus. It has some energy and a decent (albeit a bit generic) solo. 6/10
Bleeding Out - Why am I getting some The Chainsmokers moments here? Some generic but aggressive riffs, some cool but generic growls and then, obviously, another mandatory autotune wank fest. It is really fantastic - the guy is so hellbent on writing a catchy chorus but I keep forgetting everything that I've heard like 10 seconds later. 3/10
Forgone Pt.1 - First song after intro that has a clear IF style. Energetic, a lot of cool riffs and melodies all around. Quite happy with this one, although some arranging choices were a bit weird. Could have been even better with these same ingredients. 7.5/10
Forgone Pt.2 - Musically this is one of those where we have a band faking their earlier material in 3/4. I like the connection they have between the two songs and some cool melodies. Nothing really annoys me, but nothing is making me want to hear this thing again. 6/10
Pure Light of Mind - Can't place it, but intro melody is stolen from somewhere. Unfortunately, this one was not a short instrumental so worse things are to come. It is... different. Cheesy shit with fake singing, but bonus points for trying something new. SC stuff on steroids. 6/10
The Great Deceiver - Another one of those generic covers of their earlier material. Nothing too bad (some lyrical cringe excluded), but nothing I need to hear again. 6/10
In the Dark - Wooow so eviiiil. And has "dark" in the tittle. We have some serious metal thing here, eh? Not really. Most of the song is very forgettable and should have been left in the studio thrash bin. Pre-chorus is new level bad. Chorus is, well like every other chorus. It has a solo. That's it. One good melody towards the end, but totally out of place in the context of the song. 3/10
A Dialogue in B Flat Minor - Yeah my n*****, jump da fak up! Going by the tittle I thought this was going to be an instrumental with some cellos or something. It's not. It is Scream of this album. Cool solo and some acoustics wasted near the end. 3/10
Cynosure - Nice opening riff. Vocals processed with everything available in the studio and the supermarket down the street. But... they sound good. It's a cool songs with some twists, but could have benefited from better solo. It's like they're trying to fuck up something in every single song. Can't wait to hear Anders "singing" this live lol. 7/10
End the Transmission - Like many things on this album, has a decent riff that goes nowhere really. Just some droning noise with some lyrics over it. As usual, chorus is generic, clean and forgettable. I dozed off for the rest of the song. 4.5/10
Become One - The winner of The Most Generic Song Name award, along with Bleeding Out. Decent riffs, going nowhere. Generic clean sung chorus. I'm starting to see a pattern here. Growls were cool, Anders trying to hit high notes was not. 4.5/10
In total this album is a 5/10 for me. But I always overestimate IF albums on first listen.
In general, it benefits from an energetic drummer, addition of competent guitarist and songwriter and better guitar sound (or production). Some new ideas in the guitar department, but nothing too interesting.
Vocals are a mixed bag. Growls are quite good (although trying to hard to sound evil), cleans are mostly shit. Also, all that singing sounds very shallow and fake from emotional side of things.
ITM was a much better album for me. Can't see myself going back to these songs. Most of them are not offensive to my ears and taste, but are really, really forgettable.
Highlights: Forgone pt.1, Cynosure, intro and Pure Light of Mind I guess, as the most memorable out of 6/10 bunch of songs.
The Beginning of All Things - Can't go wrong with nice acoustics and harmony. Very Bjorn-esque. Cute little tune, but nothing special. Almost like an afterthought. Could have benefited from developing the basic idea more, but works well as an intro. 7.5/10
State of Slow Decay - Works better after that intro than on its own. Good ATG cover, with some shitty IF "evil" riffs and "catchy" chorus added. Nothing against the song, but quite forgettable. 6/10
Meet Your Maker - Still impersonating a metal band here. Obvious STYE vibes + mandatory Battles chorus. It has some energy and a decent (albeit a bit generic) solo. 6/10
Bleeding Out - Why am I getting some The Chainsmokers moments here? Some generic but aggressive riffs, some cool but generic growls and then, obviously, another mandatory autotune wank fest. It is really fantastic - the guy is so hellbent on writing a catchy chorus but I keep forgetting everything that I've heard like 10 seconds later. 3/10
Forgone Pt.1 - First song after intro that has a clear IF style. Energetic, a lot of cool riffs and melodies all around. Quite happy with this one, although some arranging choices were a bit weird. Could have been even better with these same ingredients. 7.5/10
Forgone Pt.2 - Musically this is one of those where we have a band faking their earlier material in 3/4. I like the connection they have between the two songs and some cool melodies. Nothing really annoys me, but nothing is making me want to hear this thing again. 6/10
Pure Light of Mind - Can't place it, but intro melody is stolen from somewhere. Unfortunately, this one was not a short instrumental so worse things are to come. It is... different. Cheesy shit with fake singing, but bonus points for trying something new. SC stuff on steroids. 6/10
The Great Deceiver - Another one of those generic covers of their earlier material. Nothing too bad (some lyrical cringe excluded), but nothing I need to hear again. 6/10
In the Dark - Wooow so eviiiil. And has "dark" in the tittle. We have some serious metal thing here, eh? Not really. Most of the song is very forgettable and should have been left in the studio thrash bin. Pre-chorus is new level bad. Chorus is, well like every other chorus. It has a solo. That's it. One good melody towards the end, but totally out of place in the context of the song. 3/10
A Dialogue in B Flat Minor - Yeah my n*****, jump da fak up! Going by the tittle I thought this was going to be an instrumental with some cellos or something. It's not. It is Scream of this album. Cool solo and some acoustics wasted near the end. 3/10
Cynosure - Nice opening riff. Vocals processed with everything available in the studio and the supermarket down the street. But... they sound good. It's a cool songs with some twists, but could have benefited from better solo. It's like they're trying to fuck up something in every single song. Can't wait to hear Anders "singing" this live lol. 7/10
End the Transmission - Like many things on this album, has a decent riff that goes nowhere really. Just some droning noise with some lyrics over it. As usual, chorus is generic, clean and forgettable. I dozed off for the rest of the song. 4.5/10
Become One - The winner of The Most Generic Song Name award, along with Bleeding Out. Decent riffs, going nowhere. Generic clean sung chorus. I'm starting to see a pattern here. Growls were cool, Anders trying to hit high notes was not. 4.5/10
In total this album is a 5/10 for me. But I always overestimate IF albums on first listen.
In general, it benefits from an energetic drummer, addition of competent guitarist and songwriter and better guitar sound (or production). Some new ideas in the guitar department, but nothing too interesting.
Vocals are a mixed bag. Growls are quite good (although trying to hard to sound evil), cleans are mostly shit. Also, all that singing sounds very shallow and fake from emotional side of things.
ITM was a much better album for me. Can't see myself going back to these songs. Most of them are not offensive to my ears and taste, but are really, really forgettable.
Highlights: Forgone pt.1, Cynosure, intro and Pure Light of Mind I guess, as the most memorable out of 6/10 bunch of songs.
Look. I'm not telling you to share my feelings. You think they're right and it's ok. I don't like them and it's ok. His growls aren't even the annoying part of this. It's his cleans that I have a real problem with. And I have no doubt that, unless some miracle happened, he's not going to put then live. He will probably put some growl or scream instead of the cleans unless he is willing to embarrass himself.
I dunno man, that sounds like it's not really about your feeling, but some kind of objective truth. Though I don't intend to pry on that one, let's just agree to disagree.
Gave a couple more spins to the opening and it probably is the high point of the album, I wouldn't mind it on any of the big four albums. They had some decent efforts in terms of acoustics for a while now, it could be their forte if only they stopped chasing after Benson's big metalcore dreams.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
I'm hooked on Pure light. Element of being new and all that jazz, so I won't say my favorite on the record, but it is on a loop right now.
And that guy was right: I discarded End of Transmission as shit after one listen, gave it another go after his comment, and it's actually pretty good. Giving me YOur Bedtime story vibes, which I absolute loved back then.
And that guy was right: I discarded End of Transmission as shit after one listen, gave it another go after his comment, and it's actually pretty good. Giving me YOur Bedtime story vibes, which I absolute loved back then.
ThePhobiac
be at ease
Quick thoughts now that I've listened to it, then a brief track-by-track:
If Battles was In Flames at their nadir, ITM was them about 50% of the way back on track. Foregone is them 90% of the way there for me. Instrumentally, I'm really liking everything here. The clear flaw for me on this one -- not sure if it's a fatal flaw, but I don't think it is right now -- is Anders going way overboard with the cleans, in ways that detract from otherwise powerful songs.
Track-by-track...
The Beginning of All Things That Will End - A pleasant and very In Flames-y acoustic passage that I very much liked, even though it doesn't fit with the rest of the album tonally.
State of Slow Decay - A fun and straightforward track that's pretty much what you'd expect from a Gothenburg-based metal band. Nothing flashy, but it doesn't need to be, and Anders stays within his range.
Meet Your Maker - Catchy song with a nice flow and guitar riffs that make me want to learn them myself. Anders lucks out by turning in a performance that I happen to like, even if he lays it on a bit thick. Tanner displays some nice nuances that elevate the track.
Bleeding Out - Instrumentally interesting (later surpassed by the similar In the Dark) with a solo that doesn't quite convince and a chorus straight out of Battles. Not a bad song by any means, but the incongruity between the vocals and the instruments makes this weaker than it should be.
Foregone Pt. 1 - I'm an unabashed fan of this song because it has that flow and melodic throughline that I've been looking for ever since I first heard The Jester Race (remember, this is based on my personal interpretation of TJR and why I like that album so much). My favorite track on the album, no notes needed and no glaring flaws I can think of.
Foregone Pt. 2 - An instrumentally lush counterpoint to Pt. 1 and a great companion piece to that song; it's a shame Anders' vocals in the chorus overseason the entire thing and crowd out some inspired guitar work.
Pure Light of Mind - An 80's ballad in the vein of With Eyes Wide Open, but with some interesting instrumental turns that pleasantly surprised me. Anders' falsetto is almost funny, but I appreciate him having the balls to try it. The oversaturated chorus vocals weigh down an otherwise surprisingly solid track.
The Great Deceiver - The Brush the Dust Away of Foregone: a fun and solid track with no glaring weaknesses; that said, it's hard for me to imagine actively revisiting it in the future. That's better than being a bad song, but it doesn't make it a great one either.
In the Dark - I love 12/8 as a rule, and this song delivers the goods for me, even if it's not the most original music you'll hear. Anders, in contrast to previous songs, elevates this track with vocal melodies that compliment the instrumentals rather than distract from them. My second favorite track on Foregone.
A Dialogue in B Flat Minor - I found the guitarwork on this track to be surprisingly catchy and atypical, in a way that reminded me of Drenched in Fear or Reflect the Storm. Anders' insistence on saturating the chorus with absurd cleans brings down an otherwise solid song.
Cynosure - A different approach to the typical In Flames composition fails to counterbalance a poor vocal performance. Tanner's drum solo in the bridge is a highlight on what is otherwise easily Foregone's weakest track.
End the Transmission - A song that seems to have been put at the end because there was no other place to stick it. It has some catchy riffing and I have no complaints regarding the instrumentation, but the clean vocals come across as a little silly. Not enough to drag down the whole thing, though -- it joins March to the Shore in the catalogue of solid-but-not-special In Flames closers.
Become One - Anders turns in a very solid harsh vocal performance and an unsurprisingly weak clean performance, but thankfully the infectious riffing drowns him out for me rather than the opposite.
All told, I'm well-pleased with this album. There are only a couple of songs I would consider "meh" and none that I would consider bad. That's what I expect from an In Flames album. I would say it's the best since either ASOP or SOAPF (not counting Siren Charms for obvious reasons
).
If Battles was In Flames at their nadir, ITM was them about 50% of the way back on track. Foregone is them 90% of the way there for me. Instrumentally, I'm really liking everything here. The clear flaw for me on this one -- not sure if it's a fatal flaw, but I don't think it is right now -- is Anders going way overboard with the cleans, in ways that detract from otherwise powerful songs.
Track-by-track...
The Beginning of All Things That Will End - A pleasant and very In Flames-y acoustic passage that I very much liked, even though it doesn't fit with the rest of the album tonally.
State of Slow Decay - A fun and straightforward track that's pretty much what you'd expect from a Gothenburg-based metal band. Nothing flashy, but it doesn't need to be, and Anders stays within his range.
Meet Your Maker - Catchy song with a nice flow and guitar riffs that make me want to learn them myself. Anders lucks out by turning in a performance that I happen to like, even if he lays it on a bit thick. Tanner displays some nice nuances that elevate the track.
Bleeding Out - Instrumentally interesting (later surpassed by the similar In the Dark) with a solo that doesn't quite convince and a chorus straight out of Battles. Not a bad song by any means, but the incongruity between the vocals and the instruments makes this weaker than it should be.
Foregone Pt. 1 - I'm an unabashed fan of this song because it has that flow and melodic throughline that I've been looking for ever since I first heard The Jester Race (remember, this is based on my personal interpretation of TJR and why I like that album so much). My favorite track on the album, no notes needed and no glaring flaws I can think of.
Foregone Pt. 2 - An instrumentally lush counterpoint to Pt. 1 and a great companion piece to that song; it's a shame Anders' vocals in the chorus overseason the entire thing and crowd out some inspired guitar work.
Pure Light of Mind - An 80's ballad in the vein of With Eyes Wide Open, but with some interesting instrumental turns that pleasantly surprised me. Anders' falsetto is almost funny, but I appreciate him having the balls to try it. The oversaturated chorus vocals weigh down an otherwise surprisingly solid track.
The Great Deceiver - The Brush the Dust Away of Foregone: a fun and solid track with no glaring weaknesses; that said, it's hard for me to imagine actively revisiting it in the future. That's better than being a bad song, but it doesn't make it a great one either.
In the Dark - I love 12/8 as a rule, and this song delivers the goods for me, even if it's not the most original music you'll hear. Anders, in contrast to previous songs, elevates this track with vocal melodies that compliment the instrumentals rather than distract from them. My second favorite track on Foregone.
A Dialogue in B Flat Minor - I found the guitarwork on this track to be surprisingly catchy and atypical, in a way that reminded me of Drenched in Fear or Reflect the Storm. Anders' insistence on saturating the chorus with absurd cleans brings down an otherwise solid song.
Cynosure - A different approach to the typical In Flames composition fails to counterbalance a poor vocal performance. Tanner's drum solo in the bridge is a highlight on what is otherwise easily Foregone's weakest track.
End the Transmission - A song that seems to have been put at the end because there was no other place to stick it. It has some catchy riffing and I have no complaints regarding the instrumentation, but the clean vocals come across as a little silly. Not enough to drag down the whole thing, though -- it joins March to the Shore in the catalogue of solid-but-not-special In Flames closers.
Become One - Anders turns in a very solid harsh vocal performance and an unsurprisingly weak clean performance, but thankfully the infectious riffing drowns him out for me rather than the opposite.
All told, I'm well-pleased with this album. There are only a couple of songs I would consider "meh" and none that I would consider bad. That's what I expect from an In Flames album. I would say it's the best since either ASOP or SOAPF (not counting Siren Charms for obvious reasons
).
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That's the vibe I'm also getting and why I kind of like it. It sounds a little "urgent" - which does it well. The drums really tie it together I think.
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