New to mixing, need your opinion!

[Brent Holder]

Hey guys I have tried another one of Icem4n's mixing practices and I was wanting to post it here to see if I could get some words on it. I was going to post it in the original thread but I was hoping to get more responses so I can better myself.

*I'm Totally fine if it isn't a good mix but it would mean a lot to me if you guys could at least tell me if i'm on the right track, if its good for a total noob and what I can improve on. Keep in mind I really only started trying to mix a few weeks ago and I'm completely new to this. I spent a long time researching things and I'm just now being able to put some of the things I've learned to the test. I'm still in that phase of "I sort of know what some things do but not quite, my ears aren't really experienced yet, so I just kinda mix it till I think it sounds good.

***NEW TRY***


Thanks in advanced

 

[TPMusic]

Hmm... the very first thing I noticed in my crappy headphones is that the guitars seem like they are not at the same volume and they may also need a little more distortion. And I can't really hear the Cymbals and the snare seems to get covered up... so you may need to make more room for your snare. I also can't really hear the bass on these headphones... might be the headphones or the mix haha I am unsure which. You just need to work on the basic balance a little bit more, but I think if you keep trying you might do pretty well.

I am still learning how to mix, but I learned quite a bit from The Arkham Rebellion's "A Beginner's Guide To Mixing Metal At Home" so you may want to check it out if you haven't they are on youtube. When I first started I thought they were good videos, but now that I have much more experience I now see that it is a pretty amazing guide.

I would suggest starting from the beginning and try one more time and see where it goes. Since you have already mixed it once, you can probably do much better a second time since you already have a basic idea of what you did before and just try and improve upon it.

 

[Brent Holder]

Thank you man! and so far I watched his Metal Mixing at Home guide like 4 times but each time I do I learn a little more. I used Seinnheiser DrumMicA for drums so I'm still kinda getting used to it, that maybe why my drums are bad.

Thanks for your words! I will definitely try again!

 

[Deranged Tapir]

The most important thing in a rock or metal mix is the balance between your guitars and bass. If you can get an ear for that, everything else starts to fall into place.

I'm not going to pretend it's perfect, but here are some examples from my mix:

Here's the bass and guitar together. Personal taste varies, but I like to think it's got plenty of definition, a fullness through the mids, and enough low end to be aggressive.


Now here's just the guitar. By itself, it doesn't really impress. That's because a guitar is just a dainty little hat the bass wears when it's feeling festive.


Here's the bass. While it's also a little brighter than you'd initially expect, it has everything it needs to don the guitar as headgear.


And because none of that means shit without the context of the production, here it is with everything:


Another thing to possibly take away is the relative volume of the drums and vocals compared to the guitars and how much clarity it adds to the mix. The drums get less drastic with limiting, but because enough of the decay is above the guitars, it won't get buried as easily.

Hope that helps!

 

[Brent Holder]

Thanks for the representation man it actually helps put things into perspective a lot better. I actually am currently finishing my second go at the mix now, all I have left is the vocals and then I will be done. The guitars and bass actually sound good this go around. I will post it when I'm done.

I have noticed when I render the song out it sounds like the levels change a bit. I can turn the bass up to a good level and not hear it at all in the render, this causes me to have to render, listen, adjust and render again... I feel like this isn't normal.

 

[Zerochance]

I am still learning how to mix, but I learned quite a bit from The Arkham Rebellion's "A Beginner's Guide To Mixing Metal At Home" so you may want to check it out if you haven't they are on youtube. When I first started I thought they were good videos, but now that I have much more experience I now see that it is a pretty amazing guide.

James is a very knowledgeable dude, and his tutorials are definitely great but right off the bat he says his presets and mixing choices will not work for everything, and I can attest to that. I used his tutorials as a reference point for some power metal stuff I'm working on and the results were not that good, but mainly because his production style is not suited for what I'm trying to achieve. Just something to keep in mind.

I'd say the issue with this mix is the right guitar is much quieter than the left one. Not sure if it's volume or just a panning issue, but it's noticeable.

 

[TPMusic]

James is a very knowledgeable dude, and his tutorials are definitely great but right off the bat he says his presets and mixing choices will not work for everything, and I can attest to that. I used his tutorials as a reference point for some power metal stuff I'm working on and the results were not that good, but mainly because his production style is not suited for what I'm trying to achieve. Just something to keep in mind.

Yeah, definitely something you should keep in mind. Any information you receive on mixing should be thought of as a general guideline for what you might do and you should never do exactly what you are shown.

@Brent Holder I never have problems with my projects when I render, at least nothing that is too noticeable... I use Reaper to do all of my mixing though and so if you also use Reaper I might be able to help. I would say Google is probably your best friend for a question like this haha.

Oh... and I can't wait to hear the new mix especially because you seem happier with it.

 

[Brent Holder]

James is a very knowledgeable dude, and his tutorials are definitely great but right off the bat he says his presets and mixing choices will not work for everything, and I can attest to that. I used his tutorials as a reference point for some power metal stuff I'm working on and the results were not that good, but mainly because his production style is not suited for what I'm trying to achieve. Just something to keep in mind.

I'd say the issue with this mix is the right guitar is much quieter than the left one. Not sure if it's volume or just a panning issue, but it's noticeable.

I kinda just get the general ideas from him, like when I first started I had no idea what to add to vocals or what to add to my master mixer after the mix and I try to never really use presets so I can be proud if I happen to make some sound good on my own. I do owe a lot of my progress to him though still.

Yeah, definitely something you should keep in mind. Any information you receive on mixing should be thought of as a general guideline for what you might do and you should never do exactly what you are shown.

@Brent Holder I never have problems with my projects when I render, at least nothing that is too noticeable... I use Reaper to do all of my mixing though and so if you also use Reaper I might be able to help. I would say Google is probably your best friend for a question like this haha.

Oh... and I can't wait to hear the new mix especially because you seem happier with it.

Yeah I'm using Reaper, on my Soundcloud the first mix I attempted 'Your Existence' its really quite. in Reaper it was as close to 0.0 I could get it without peaking.

I am kinda psyched about this mix!

 

[Brent Holder]

I feel like this ones better... at least I hope so. Whether it is or not I think I'm gonna hang it up for this song. Starting to get burnt out after hearing it over and over for so many hours. Even if this one isn't better I still feel like I have learned a lot from attempting this song. It probably still has some drum problems because I have been having problems with DrumMicA. But hopefully I improved some things.

 

[Cephara]

The cover is pretty good. The mix is pretty harsh. Most important question that hasn't been asked yet is, is everything mic'd (live sound), or are you using any vsts to produce the sound. Live sound is much better to work with I think, but you have to get a great recording in the first place from the mic placement to achieve this. Ola Englund (youtube him) has some pretty good examples of what a mic'd guitar cab should sound like unmixed somewhere in his channel (he used to have his tutorials on his website, but since has removed them). Recorded drums (it sounds like yours are) require quite a few mics, and quite a bit of eq to achieve a really good metal sound. Steven Slates Triggers can fix any drum recording though.

Great song, but if you could do For Salvation, or Tattered on My Sleeve, that would be sick.

 

[Brent Holder]

The cover is pretty good. The mix is pretty harsh. Most important question that hasn't been asked yet is, is everything mic'd (live sound), or are you using any vsts to produce the sound. Live sound is much better to work with I think, but you have to get a great recording in the first place from the mic placement to achieve this. Ola Englund (youtube him) has some pretty good examples of what a mic'd guitar cab should sound like unmixed somewhere in his channel (he used to have his tutorials on his website, but since has removed them). Recorded drums (it sounds like yours are) require quite a few mics, and quite a bit of eq to achieve a really good metal sound. Steven Slates Triggers can fix any drum recording though.

Great song, but if you could do For Salvation, or Tattered on My Sleeve, that would be sick.

The cover was done by this guy. http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/practice-room/896415-practice-time-06-all-remains-calling.html

All the sounds come from amp sims though I spent all the money I had on an Interface and headphones so I don't have any bought vsts besides Guitar Rig 5 which I'm still learning how to use so I have been using the LePou amp sims.

I would like to get EZDrummer + Metal Machine for a good drum sound but haven't got the cash yet. I don't know if you saw my re-attempt but it may sound better. I'm still learning though, so even though it doesnt sound the greatest I am learning a lot.

 

[Cephara]

I have found drums to be quite complicated for a straight up guitarist, or I would assume anyone who isn't a drummer. Luckily, I have been blessed with a shitty job that pays just below what people make from chapter 18 (or whatever) housing subsidies and welfare, so I've invested a lot of partial savings into my hobby (recording music). Free today is a lot better than it was even two years ago. Interfaces are not necessary (1/4" to 1/8" for instruments or usb) because ASIO4all does a decent job producing low latency direct ins. But I do prefer them; like my crappy Line 6 UX 2 24bit 44.1k interface (only reason I have is for my Blue microphones).

I'm not sure if you've ever gone to your local guitar shop and played on a Mesa Dual Rect, but it sound quite bland without a stomp pedal for additional gain to beef up its sound (both 6L6 and the other one). I haven't fucked around with a XXX or a 6505 sadly, but a TS 9 is (or something similar) is (I think) required to acquire a decent metal guitar tone. Same holds true with VSTs. http://www.tseaudio.com/software.html has a great 64-bit TS 808 (based on Dunlap I believe) stomp pedal that works great for free. Their TSE X50 is based off the 6505 (I've still have better sound with Amplitube's 3 5150 model), but requires an impulse response to sound amazing (with minimal eq as long as its a humbucker in my experience [passive distortions].

I spent way to much money on headphones (about $300); only to find out headphones are garbage for mastering songs (I'm stationed overseas currently so when I recording the same track over and over for hours, I'm not pissing off my piss mates.. they're not a complete waste to me), and studio monitors may not always provide the best reference in an non engineered room. I've always found that you should master your tracks on something a lot of people have. Logic Speakers a great example. Other people burn me if you must, but Logic seems to hold a pretty good standard on computer sound interface (I use Logic's speakers in conjunction with my home theater, my car's sound system, and my Bose in ear phones).

For the money you are willing to spend, don't waste it on EZDrummer. Steven Slate's Drums if by far better, and requires much less effort. I own SSD and Superior Drummer 2.xx only to find out that I can't mix drums for shit. Steven Slate Drums was an epic downgrade, but the ease of quality kills any of ToonTrack's presets for Metal Foundry or the default Avatar (I don't have it installed SD2 default library). You lose a lot of control and dynamics, but its no issue if you know how to write your own drum midi.

I just recently switched back to W8 from OS X (Logic Pro), so I'm running a trial of Samplitube for recording. I have had a problem with 32-bit plug-ins, so it doesn't hurt to make sure your DAW, or your plugins are compatible.

http://youtu.be/qfh_ZkyZtwg consist of a long visual tutorial on how develop metal tracks. Although he specializes in Djent (and hes really hard to listen over a long period), this video serious listen under his description is a high valuble tool to learn how to develop, mix, and master metal tracks. Most of his conecepts remain true while you can do them with new and free plug-ins. Honestly I've never seen any video series more helpful. Just wish he would condense it.

 

[Brent Holder]

I have found drums to be quite complicated for a straight up guitarist, or I would assume anyone who isn't a drummer. Luckily, I have been blessed with a shitty job that pays just below what people make from chapter 18 (or whatever) housing subsidies and welfare, so I've invested a lot of partial savings into my hobby (recording music). Free today is a lot better than it was even two years ago. Interfaces are not necessary (1/4" to 1/8" for instruments or usb) because ASIO4all does a decent job producing low latency direct ins. But I do prefer them; like my crappy Line 6 UX 2 24bit 44.1k interface (only reason I have is for my Blue microphones).

I'm not sure if you've ever gone to your local guitar shop and played on a Mesa Dual Rect, but it sound quite bland without a stomp pedal for additional gain to beef up its sound (both 6L6 and the other one). I haven't fucked around with a XXX or a 6505 sadly, but a TS 9 is (or something similar) is (I think) required to acquire a decent metal guitar tone. Same holds true with VSTs. http://www.tseaudio.com/software.html has a great 64-bit TS 808 (based on Dunlap I believe) stomp pedal that works great for free. Their TSE X50 is based off the 6505 (I've still have better sound with Amplitube's 3 5150 model), but requires an impulse response to sound amazing (with minimal eq as long as its a humbucker in my experience [passive distortions].

I spent way to much money on headphones (about $300); only to find out headphones are garbage for mastering songs (I'm stationed overseas currently so when I recording the same track over and over for hours, I'm not pissing off my piss mates.. they're not a complete waste to me), and studio monitors may not always provide the best reference in an non engineered room. I've always found that you should master your tracks on something a lot of people have. Logic Speakers a great example. Other people burn me if you must, but Logic seems to hold a pretty good standard on computer sound interface (I use Logic's speakers in conjunction with my home theater, my car's sound system, and my Bose in ear phones).

For the money you are willing to spend, don't waste it on EZDrummer. Steven Slate's Drums if by far better, and requires much less effort. I own SSD and Superior Drummer 2.xx only to find out that I can't mix drums for shit. Steven Slate Drums was an epic downgrade, but the ease of quality kills any of ToonTrack's presets for Metal Foundry or the default Avatar (I don't have it installed SD2 default library). You lose a lot of control and dynamics, but its no issue if you know how to write your own drum midi.

I just recently switched back to W8 from OS X (Logic Pro), so I'm running a trial of Samplitube for recording. I have had a problem with 32-bit plug-ins, so it doesn't hurt to make sure your DAW, or your plugins are compatible.

http://youtu.be/qfh_ZkyZtwg consist of a long visual tutorial on how develop metal tracks. Although he specializes in Djent (and hes really hard to listen over a long period), this video serious listen under his description is a high valuble tool to learn how to develop, mix, and master metal tracks. Most of his conecepts remain true while you can do them with new and free plug-ins. Honestly I've never seen any video series more helpful. Just wish he would condense it.

Thanks for all the info man, I will definitely check it all out!

 

[Daybreak]

First thing I notice is the guitars seems to be panned to the left...? This is extremely distracting. I would suggest panning it to the middle and lowering it in the mix. Drums sound pretty decent though!

 

[Brent Holder]

First thing I notice is the guitars seems to be panned to the left...? This is extremely distracting. I would suggest panning it to the middle and lowering it in the mix. Drums sound pretty decent though!

Thanks man! I re-tried it, my new version may be a little better!