Nightwish

[AngraRULES]

It is sad for me the say this, but the best vocal work on the album is one of the songs she doesn't sing on. (The Islander)

This.

 

[SeaStorm]

I'll take the minority position here. If they had not split with Tarja, I would not be a fan today. For many years, all my metal friends tried to get me into Nightwish. I tried and tried and just never liked Tarja's vocals. She's definitely very talented, but her voice never moved me. I eventually gave up, deciding I liked Marco's vocals, but that wasn't enough for me to spend time listening to the band.

When Dark Passion Play came out, I gave it a try, based on the presence of a new vocalist and some strong personal recommendations I got at PP. WOW! I love it! This album made me a Nightwish fan. I've listened to it endlessly since it came out. Saw them live on the DPP tour and loved it. I thought Annette was fantastic.

Once I got hooked on the band, I went back and worked on the older material again. While I still don't prefer Tarja's vocals, I've at least learned to enjoy the music (I picked up Wishmaster and Once).

I thought DPP had tons of fresh energy due to the split, such as Bye Bye Beautiful and Master Passion Greed. Marco has become one of my favorite vocalists now

 

[AngraRULES]

This is for you folks who don't think Annette is a limited vocalist:

 

[TheLongshot]

I thought DPP had tons of fresh energy due to the split, such as Bye Bye Beautiful and Master Passion Greed. Marco has become one of my favorite vocalists now

Those two songs are another reason why I don't particularly like the album. It just seemed poor form to me for such public displays of disdain, considering all the rather public stuff with the parting of ways. While it was probably healthy for them to get it out, it leaves me with a hard time enjoying those songs considering how obvious the baggage attracted to the songs are.

As for Marco's harsher vocals, I actually enjoy his two songs with Delain more than those two songs on Nightwish's last.

 

[johan68]

I'll take the minority position here. If they had not split with Tarja, I would not be a fan today. For many years, all my metal friends tried to get me into Nightwish. I tried and tried and just never liked Tarja's vocals. She's definitely very talented, but her voice never moved me. I eventually gave up, deciding I liked Marco's vocals, but that wasn't enough for me to spend time listening to the band.

When Dark Passion Play came out, I gave it a try, based on the presence of a new vocalist and some strong personal recommendations I got at PP. WOW! I love it! This album made me a Nightwish fan. I've listened to it endlessly since it came out. Saw them live on the DPP tour and loved it. I thought Annette was fantastic.

Once I got hooked on the band, I've went back and worked on the older material again. While I still don't prefer Tarja's vocals, I've at least learned to enjoy the music (I picked up Wishmaster and Once).

I thought DPP had tons of fresh energy due to the split, such as Bye Bye Beautiful and Master Passion Greed. Marco has become one of my favorite vocalists now

I pretty much agree on everything you just wrote. My experiences with Nightwish are almost identical to yours.

Have seen them twice with Tarja and twice with Olzon and enjoyed the two latter shows a lot more. Nothing wrong with Tarja but Annette's vocal style is more my cup of tea. The rest of the band seems much more relaxed these days as well, and I think that shows in their live performances.

 

[adaher]

Trashing your former vocalist in a song is very unmetal. Leave the dissing of other artists to the rappers.

 

[nomisofsiman]

There were signs of trouble between Tarja, her hubby/manager, and the rest of Nightwish going pretty far back, as our own Glenn H. has posted in the past. As I recall, when they finally DID part ways with Tarja, Glenn mentioned that he was surprised it hadn't happened a year before that.

You don't part ways with a singer of Tarja's caliber lightly....and Nightwish didn't. There were solid reasons underlying their decision.

Having said that, their performance at ProgPower USA IV, which I co-sponsored, remains one of the finest -- and most heart-wrenching -- shows I will EVER see.

It obviously had to happen no doubt, but I still think the selection process was pretty poor.

You're out of your mind.


Anyways, from a songwriting point of view, I think Nightwish can still write some great songs. However, they're not the same band. They used to be great, now with Anette I dare say they're okay. I don't always like her vocals (her tone is weird at times), I don't like her style, I don't like her stupid outfits sometimes (last NYC show at Nokia, anyone? Wrapped in old newspaper?), and I don't like the fact that she can't handle the pressure and walks off stage crying. However, I like some songs with her like The Poet and the Pendulum.

I know exactly what you're talking about. When they played at HOB Chicago, she had a fucking tiara on her head for crying out loud! She's in Nightwish!!! It's not a pop band.

Those two songs are another reason why I don't particularly like the album. It just seemed poor form to me for such public displays of disdain, considering all the rather public stuff with the parting of ways. While it was probably healthy for them to get it out, it leaves me with a hard time enjoying those songs considering how obvious the baggage attracted to the songs are.

As for Marco's harsher vocals, I actually enjoy his two songs with Delain more than those two songs on Nightwish's last.

Totally agree with you here. I thought those two songs were in VERY bad taste. They either should've left them off the album or made them into something else. I just think it was rather juvenile to put out songs about it.

And agreed on the Delain songs.

 

[BenMech]

While Nightwish was always Tuomas's band, their entire marketing gimmick WAS Tarja's bizarre operatic (though possibly not formally operatic) vocals on top of standard EuroPowerMetal. Once that gimmick wore off (and crappy bands like Within Temptation began), NW hired Marco to be the new centerpiece. Tarja got Diva Fever, and passive aggressively fought the change with svengali husband/manager and insane shopping sprees in lieu of NW concerts*

DPP is pretty much a bad album, and Annette should NOT have sung Bye Bye Beautiful, since it wasn't her fight.

But, I'd be willing to give her a second try. Tarja's solo career too. It isn't Annette's fault that Tuomas is over the hill. .
__________________________________________________________________
* Yeah, the final straw was a shopping spree on the night of a concert

 

[adaher]

Actually, I don't think it's the female vocals that make Nightwish what they are. I think they could do just fine with a male vocalist. Probably in the beginning the novelty was important, but ever since Once, Nightwish has been more about cinematic metal, kind of a more modern approach to what Rhapsody does.

They were pretty standard power metal on Oceanborn and Wishmaster, but they've evolved into something pretty unique now, and I think Tuomas can take the band pretty much any direction he wants at this point and it will work.

But I love Annette, prefer her to Tarja actually.

 

[J-Man]

While Nightwish was always Tuomas's band, their entire marketing gimmick WAS Tarja's bizarre operatic (though possibly not formally operatic) vocals on top of standard EuroPowerMetal. Once that gimmick wore off (and crappy bands like Within Temptation began), NW hired Marco to be the new centerpiece. Tarja got Diva Fever, and passive aggressively fought the change with svengali husband/manager and insane shopping sprees in lieu of NW concerts*

DPP is pretty much a bad album, and Annette should NOT have sung Bye Bye Beautiful, since it wasn't her fight.

But, I'd be willing to give her a second try. Tarja's solo career too. It isn't Annette's fault that Tuomas is over the hill. .
__________________________________________________________________
* Yeah, the final straw was a shopping spree on the night of a concert

You know not of what you speak, again. Within Temptation a crappy band? Give me a break. Marco hired as centerpiece? Not really, Tuomas just wanted some male vocals in the mix and who better. DPP was a great album in my opinion.

You got one thing right in that whole statement "Tarja got Diva Fever" which was initiated and nurturied by her asshole Husband.

 

[J-Man]

Actually, I don't think it's the female vocals that make Nightwish what they are. I think they could do just fine with a male vocalist. Probably in the beginning the novelty was important, but ever since Once, Nightwish has been more about cinematic metal, kind of a more modern approach to what Rhapsody does.

They were pretty standard power metal on Oceanborn and Wishmaster, but they've evolved into something pretty unique now, and I think Tuomas can take the band pretty much any direction he wants at this point and it will work.

But I love Annette, prefer her to Tarja actually.

I would love to see Jarkko Ahola(ex-Dreamtale: Northern Kings) come into the band, and along with Marco, what a combination.

 

[St Enigma]

You got one thing right in that whole statement "Tarja got Diva Fever" which was initiated and nurturied by her asshole Husband.

This is very much beating a dead horse... but was it not her husband who tried to run Nw's and respectively also King Foo's business by using Tarja as his pivot, the guys would never let Tarja go.
But, due her personal relation to Mr Cabuli AND her *very binding* financial commitments to Mr. Cabuli's management company, they both had to go in a single package right after the Once-tour was done and without a chance to sue anybody. The timing for her sacking was planned carefully by King Foo's lawyers so Mr. Cabuli could'n sue them for anything. He tried though, but failed.

Tarja's fault was that she trusted her hubby and authorized him to run all her business when they got married. Love is blind, unfortunately. Later she didn't even bother keeping an eye on what he was about.
Tarja hardly knew what hit her when she read the notorious open letter. Probably Mr Cabuli had some minor details to explain to her afterwards... :Spin:

.

 

[Yamasidious]

So sad that good Metal has to be diluted by buisness.

 

[J-Man]

This is very much beating a dead horse... but was it not her husband who tried to run Nw's and respectively also King Foo's business by using Tarja as his pivot, the guys would never let Tarja go.
But, due her personal relation to Mr Cabuli AND her *very binding* financial commitments to Mr. Cabuli's management company, they both had to go in a single package right after the Once-tour was done and without a chance to sue anybody. The timing for her sacking was planned carefully by King Foo's lawyers so Mr. Cabuli could'n sue them for anything. He tried though, but failed.

Tarja's fault was that she trusted her hubby and authorized him to run all her business when they got married. Love is blind, unfortunately. Later she didn't even bother keeping an eye on what he was about.
Tarja hardly knew what hit her when she read the notorious open letter. Probably Mr Cabuli had some minor details to explain to her afterwards... :Spin:

.

How true that statement is, sorry for beating that dead horse

 

[OrbWeaver]

This is very much beating a dead horse... but was it not her husband who tried to run Nw's and respectively also King Foo's business by using Tarja as his pivot, the guys would never let Tarja go.
But, due her personal relation to Mr Cabuli AND her *very binding* financial commitments to Mr. Cabuli's management company, they both had to go in a single package right after the Once-tour was done and without a chance to sue anybody. The timing for her sacking was planned carefully by King Foo's lawyers so Mr. Cabuli could'n sue them for anything. He tried though, but failed.

Tarja's fault was that she trusted her hubby and authorized him to run all her business when they got married. Love is blind, unfortunately. Later she didn't even bother keeping an eye on what he was about.
Tarja hardly knew what hit her when she read the notorious open letter. Probably Mr Cabuli had some minor details to explain to her afterwards... :Spin:

.

Bravo! Well put.

 

[Yamasidious]

Actually, I don't think it's the female vocals that make Nightwish what they are. I think they could do just fine with a male vocalist.

I totally agree instead of replacing Tarja, Hell Marcus should have just been their vocalist.

 

[J-Dubya 777]

Trashing your former vocalist in a song is very unmetal. Leave the dissing of other artists to the rappers.

Oh, so NW isn't allowed to do that because they're white?
THAT's descrimination, buck-o!
(yes, I'm j/k)

 

[adaher]

Marco as the sole vocalist for Nightwish? Oh no. I believe they could seamlessly transition to a male vocalist given their current sound, but not Marco. You need someone more epic. I think Marco sounds fine with Tarot, and he's also fine as a complementary voice in Nightwish, but I don't think Nightwish would succeed commercially with Marco as the main vocalist.

Oh, so NW isn't allowed to do that because they're white?

Heh. No, it's because it's not metal. I just hope we never have a Swedes vs. Finns war that results in Joacim Cans and Timo Kotipelto getting shot.

 

[J-Dubya 777]

Heh. No, it's because it's not metal. I just hope we never have a Swedes vs. Finns war that results in Joacim Cans and Timo Kotipelto getting shot.

LOL! I'm with ya there! I seem to remember Aki trying to start stuff with Christer from FK, and it was damn funny! :Spin:

 

[BenMech]

Within Temptation a crappy band? Give me a break.

They're not a crappy band in the way that Complete is. They're a band formed to be clones of a form, adding no new elements. Anything else you would say about them is subjective.

Marco hired as centerpiece? Not really, Tuomas just wanted some male vocals in the mix and who better.

I haven't read the book. I was just guessing. I may have been misinformed. Marco's addition is a plus, I'll give you that

DPP was a great album in my opinion.

You're entitled to your opinion, John. Doesn't cancel mine.

You got one thing right in that whole statement "Tarja got Diva Fever" which was initiated and nurtured by her asshole Husband.

Is not Tuomas himself something of a diva too?? Case in point - Bye Bye Beautiful. Nobody else would have needed to write that song on their band's album