Nihilism

[cryosteel]

NIHILISM

Rejection of all inherent value frees us from a fascination with both materialism and moralism. These beliefs assert that what exists has ultimate value, and therefore that it is an end in itself and not a means to a life process. Nihilism asserts the opposite, and thus begins a path which leads us past fear of death to a heroic worldview.

 

[Norsemaiden]

NIHILISM

Rejection of all inherent value frees us from a fascination with both materialism and moralism. These beliefs assert that what exists has ultimate value, and therefore that it is an end in itself and not a means to a life process. Nihilism asserts the opposite, and thus begins a path which leads us past fear of death to a heroic worldview.

Well summarised. I was a nihilist in this sense before I'd even heard of this definition.

To state the obvious, billions of things and concepts exist - but what is less obvious perhaps is that everything has a different peceived value for every individual. Once we realise the purely subjective nature of how we evaluate things, it is possible for us to realise that we have been influenced to value things in a particular way which may be a real hidrance to us. We can revalue things in this light and construct a useful and purposeful world view in which we are far more in control of our minds than previously. This is a heroic thing because we a no longer programmed externally to the extent that we were before, now we can take charge of our minds and choose what our priorities are. It is also heroic because most people will lack the courage to free themselves from the security felt by being a sheep, and will not question their values. But the heroicism does depend upon the upshot of being nihilist leading to a new idealism, rather than a destructively hedonistic attitude for example.

That sent me off on an interesting tangent!
Lord Byron comes to mind as an example of the latter (hedonistically nihilist type) although he was not officially a nihilist - and just doing some research now brought up this article
http://www.urich.edu/~dhocutt/bazarov/text.htm

Tracing Byron's Influence on the Creation and Development of the Nihilist Bazarov in Ivan Turgenev's Fathers and Sons

.

Turgenev was certainly decadent in at least one respect. He was a total womaniser, as was Byron, and even got both Bakunin's and Tolstoy's sisters pregnant!

 

[OldScratch]

This topic fascinates me. I would very much appreciate some advice on reading to better my understanding of the concept of Nihilism over all. I'm stuck between the anti-nihilism of Nietzsche and the realization that I may be more inclined toward the nihilistic on some level, though this may just be a gross mischaracterization on my part. I am woefully behind the curve on formally educating myself on these matters. I respect the opinions offered here and would welcome some reading and research suggestions.

 

[Norsemaiden]

This topic fascinates me. I would very much appreciate some advice on reading to better my understanding of the concept of Nihilism over all. I'm stuck between the anti-nihilism of Nietzsche and the realization that I may be more inclined toward the nihilistic on some level, though this may just be a gross mischaracterization on my part. I am woefully behind the curve on formally educating myself on these matters. I respect the opinions offered here and would welcome some reading and research suggestions.

Apart from the link that cryosteel gives, there is also
http://www.anus.com/zine/philosophy/nihilism.html

Being a realist is also important to a nihilist because, while we can set values however we choose, this doesn't equate to making up reality. We adjust our values insuch a way as to better fit in with what appears to be reality. And there is only one reality. Because of this, nihilists end up having similar goals to one another.

Nietzsche was a nihilist.
http://www.iep.utm.edu/n/nihilism.htm#H2
2. Friedrich Nietzsche and Nihilism

Among philosophers, Friedrich Nietzsche is most often associated with nihilism. For Nietzsche, there is no objective order or structure in the world except what we give it. Penetrating the façades buttressing convictions, the nihilist discovers that all values are baseless and that reason is impotent. "Every belief, every considering something-true," Nietzsche writes, "is necessarily false because there is simply no true world" (Will to Power [notes from 1883-1888]). For him, nihilism requires a radical repudiation of all imposed values and meaning: "Nihilism is . . . not only the belief that everything deserves to perish; but one actually puts one's shoulder to the plough; one destroys" (Will to Power).

The caustic strength of nihilism is absolute, Nietzsche argues, and under its withering scrutiny "the highest values devalue themselves. The aim is lacking, and 'Why' finds no answer" (Will to Power). Inevitably, nihilism will expose all cherished beliefs and sacrosanct truths as symptoms of a defective Western mythos. This collapse of meaning, relevance, and purpose will be the most destructive force in history, constituting a total assault on reality and nothing less than the greatest crisis of humanity:

That site has a lot of information on nihilism, most of which is very negative!

 

[cryosteel]

We can take a nihilistic methodology to remove what doesn't exist from our world view, often someone else's incorrect bias or preference that for whatever reason we chose to accept during the course of our lives. With illusion cleared away, we can better realise goals for ourselves or work with others toward higher common ideals, making decisions that function within rather than conflict with reality. Ideally at this point, we would not be adding anything destructive or unnecessary to our goal, which gives it integrity and longevity.

 

[OldScratch]

Nietzsche was a nihilist.
http://www.iep.utm.edu/n/nihilism.htm#H2
2. Friedrich Nietzsche and Nihilism

Thank You for the information. I'm a little confused on the Nietzsche and Nihilism connection. I can see where some ideas would be shared but overall I didn't interpret his works this way. But alas, I have much to learn either way.
Thanks Again.

 

[ARC150]

I'm a little confused on the Nietzsche and Nihilism connection. I can see where some ideas would be shared but overall I didn't interpret his works this way. But alas, I have much to learn either way.
Thanks Again.

I think it is important to understand Nihilism as a reaction to certain beliefs rather than a belief in and unto itself.

Nietche is well-known for "Gott is tot" ("God is dead" - most notably from Thus Spake Zarathrustra). He is a Nihilist inasmuch as he believed that man destroyed God - and with it, the order and structure that the idea of God gave to His disciples. With no God, we are left to order, value and understand the world however we will.

Nihilism, I have found, is commonly misunderstood as a belief in nothing. In fact, Nihilism is a belief that existing structures of belief are nothing more than...well...beliefs. They are created by man for man and have no inherent reality in and to themselves.

Nihilism is a freeing of oneself from the bounds of constructed beliefs. It is not that Nietzche believed in nothing, but rather that he disbelieved that any belief was anything more than a constructed set of ideas. Knowing this frees you to create any set of beliefs that you...well...believe.

 

[Jrgen]

It should be noted that Nietzsche spends a lot of time thinking/writing about how to overcome nihilism, as he saw it as a great problem. I have seen many different definitions of nihilism, making it impossible for me to say "I am a nihilist". I am however a nihilist on the ethical and existential level. I recognize that the life of a human can fill a purpose if it was created for a purpose. Since the only ones who have the power to create a person is the parents of the potential person, the parents are the only ones who can set a purpose of the person in question. This may also only be done prior to the conception. I do not believe that huminty, life or existence in general was created, let alone with a purpose. Therefore there can be no general "meaning of life" or inherent value of neither life forms nor dead objects. Universal morals require a purpose of the existence of the life forms these moral rules apply to. If someone (generally referred to as God) has created humanity to accomplish a goal, then I understand that he could have an interest in the way humans choose to lead their life, but if there is no such being I do not understand how there could be any universal morality either.

 

[Norsemaiden]

Jrgen, I haven't read everything by Nietzsche and I wonder if you would be so good as to point (reference) parts where he sees nihilism as a problem? I think discussing these so-called problems could add a lot to the thread.

 

[OldScratch]

So...Nietzsche was something of a nihilist(clearly he challenged most all conventions and standards, from morality outward), who simply didn't realize it - or identify himself that way. Or, not so much?

 

[Jrgen]

Jrgen, I haven't read everything by Nietzsche and I wonder if you would be so good as to point (reference) parts where he sees nihilism as a problem? I think discussing these so-called problems could add a lot to the thread.

http://experts.about.com/e/n/ni/Nihilism.htm

Book One of the posthumous collection The Will to Power (a highly selective arrangement of jottings from various notebooks and from a surceased project began by Nietzsche himself, then released by his sister) is entitled "European Nihilism," which he calls "the problem of the nineteenth century." Nietzsche characterized nihilism as emptying the world and especially human existence of meaning, purpose, comprehensible truth, or essential value.

 

[Norsemaiden]

Thanks Jrgen.

Yes nihilism would be a problem if it did not lead on to "returning meaning to the earth".

Christianity doesn't seem nihilistic because it does impose values and morals onto people and tells them that these values and morals are not open for negotiation as they are God given. Nihilism is all about rejecting the notion of God-given values together with the idea that any value exists outside of human interpretation.

 

[speed]

I think it is important to understand Nihilism as a reaction to certain beliefs rather than a belief in and unto itself.

Nietche is well-known for "Gott is tot" ("God is dead" - most notably from Thus Spake Zarathrustra). He is a Nihilist inasmuch as he believed that man destroyed God - and with it, the order and structure that the idea of God gave to His disciples. With no God, we are left to order, value and understand the world however we will.

Nihilism, I have found, is commonly misunderstood as a belief in nothing. In fact, Nihilism is a belief that existing structures of belief are nothing more than...well...beliefs. They are created by man for man and have no inherent reality in and to themselves.

Nihilism is a freeing of oneself from the bounds of constructed beliefs. It is not that Nietzche believed in nothing, but rather that he disbelieved that any belief was anything more than a constructed set of ideas. Knowing this frees you to create any set of beliefs that you...well...believe.

Perfectly put. It seems every month we need someone to restate what nihilism is, and how one properly interprets Nietzsche.

 

[Horus]

I'm still confused as to whether Nihilism is a sort of code of conduct, or if it's a way of thinking, or whatever. Unfortunately, whenever I hear the word "Nihilist", I always think of those 3 German guys in The Big Lebowski, always coming in and saying "Vhere is ze money Lebowskii?"

 

[Jrgen]

Nihilism is only a problem for those who have a need to believe that there is a "meaning, purpose, and essential value" of their lives or existence as a concept.

 

[cryosteel]

Here is an example of nihilism where we confront and discard the obsolete fantasy imposed on us by lesser men from long ago. Following the destruction of these fictitious mental constraints, we then settle into a postmoral age where the possible might once again become real. The process should be familiar to most here.

When the time came that Jehovah ruled the earth as well, a great stirring came about below. "The only course left to us now... is terrorism," Satan said.
The altar rewards your curiosity with unfolding knowledge. Seek the dark powers at the center of life and understand the fundamental, the primordial and vengeful forces invisible to normal minds. In rebellion take your freedom from the icons of control and resurrect the chaotic existence of nature.

Enslaved spirits on the face of the earth cry their pain in anguished disharmony to the life projected by their controllers. Dissonance ignored breeds suppressed desires which explode in inversion of all order. True evil lurks beyond the chaos in a harmonization of the seemingly paradoxical, a philosophy to bring human redemption to earth.

http://anus.com/altar/

 

[Norsemaiden]

There's no way that Nietzsche should be calling Christianity nihilistic. The statement "God is dead" is nihilistic in that it demolishes Christianity. If Christianity is nihilistic then saying "God is dead" wouldn't be.

A dogma believed by millions is the very opposite of nihilism. What is the opposite phrase to "a dogma believed by millions"? Could it be: "a flexible view of reality, as assessed by the individual"? That's nihilism!

Nietzsche advocates a "revaluation of all values" in Twilight of the Idols.

My conclusion is that Nietzsche is mixed up. He sees Christianity as being nihilistic because it is concerned with rejecting life and concentrating on an afterlife. But the Christian adherence to a set of believed values in order to qualify as a good person and a dualistic idea of good and evil is not nihilism.

How could Nietzsche have been anything other than a nihilist, whether he calls himself this or not? If he were not a nihilist then he would have to believe that things have intrinsic value and that this idea cannot be swept aside and reconstructed. Yet Nietzsche is famous for sweeping aside all notions of the value of things and setting them anew. It seems he was somewhat confused, doesn't it?

 

[OldScratch]

There's no way that Nietzsche should be calling Christianity nihilistic. The statement "God is dead" is nihilistic in that it demolishes Christianity. If Christianity is nihilistic then saying "God is dead" wouldn't be.

A dogma believed by millions is the very opposite of nihilism. What is the opposite phrase to "a dogma believed by millions"? Could it be: "a flexible view of reality, as assessed by the individual"? That's nihilism!

This is precisely the root of my confusion regarding Nietzsche and Nihilism.

 

[Norsemaiden]

This is precisely the root of my confusion regarding Nietzsche and Nihilism.

Yes - I have added to my previous post. I edited it while you were posting this!

 

[OldScratch]

Is anyone here familiar with the books, "Affirmation of Life - Nietzsche on Overcoming Nihilism" by B. Reginster (Harvard Univ. Press) or "Nihilism Before Nietzsche" M.A. Gillespie (Univ. Chicago Press)? Both are fairly recent publications I believe. I was thinking of pursuing one or both for a bit of clarification on the issue at hand. This is of interest to me as I have found much of Nietzsche's work reflected in my own ideals(as a late-comer to philosophy I have long been of that mind-set, but didn't know Nietzsche from Plato...oh, the wasted years!) and I have long thought of Nihilism as being a rather more "extreme" ideology altogether(not simply extreme for going against social convention, religion, etc.). But based on the general consensus on this thread I have misidentified Nihilism...and perhaps, F.N. did too?!