noob is recording a metal record... critique me!

[AerialThesis]

Well since i have the 808 track apart from the mix, I can compress the mix to taste and add the 808 on the side so it doesn't trigger the mix's compressor and ruins the dynamic effect. I can also automate the mix EQ, Volume, Panning and Compression wise to make the 808 stand out as it kicks in for that second or so. I love mastering stuff with the instrumental track, a vocal stem and the 808's track separate so the vocal track doesn't get squashed in the process and doesn't become to sibilant if i add any highs to the instruments.

As for the process of a mastering session, i guess i could generalize and say i paralel compress, expand, automate the master fader and tweak the tonal balance with a linear phase equaliser when necessary. Each mastering session is completely different, i want to keep the final product as close as the original in terms of balance since if i felt the kick for example wasn't loud enough i'd simply ask you to remix it. The whole game in the mastering session is to get a volume gain without compromising the mix's width and tonality, while adding more punch and clarity. Making the whole mix sound more kick ass then it allready does. Anyways, when i'm done mastering it, i'll simply post the result here and tell you exactly what i've done to it so you can hear the subtle or more important changes.

 

[solphilcox]

Well since i have the 808 track apart from the mix, I can compress the mix to taste and add the 808 on the side so it doesn't trigger the mix's compressor and ruins the dynamic effect. I can also automate the mix EQ, Volume, Panning and Compression wise to make the 808 stand out as it kicks in for that second or so. I love mastering stuff with the instrumental track, a vocal stem and the 808's track separate so the vocal track doesn't get squashed in the process and doesn't become to sibilant if i add any highs to the instruments.

As for the process of a mastering session, i guess i could generalize and say i paralel compress, expand, automate the master fader and tweak the tonal balance with a linear phase equaliser when necessary. Each mastering session is completely different, i want to keep the final product as close as the original in terms of balance since if i felt the kick for example wasn't loud enough i'd simply ask you to remix it. The whole game in the mastering session is to get a volume gain without compromising the mix's width and tonality, while adding more punch and clarity. Making the whole mix sound more kick ass then it allready does. Anyways, when i'm done mastering it, i'll simply post the result here and tell you exactly what i've done to it so you can hear the subtle or more important changes.

ok man that sounds awesome! only problem is, since my last mixing session i added a bunch of new plugins to some stuff, now the session crashes upon loading the plugin assignments and there is nothing i can do about it. once i figure it out, i'll send you them stubs.

thanks!

 

[AerialThesis]

No problem!

 

[AerialThesis]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2769770/Poor God (Sol Philcox).m4a

Here's my first shot at mastering it. I sense my monitors generate too much highs for my taste since I ended up killing some high end, that i tought was too harsh, and then when i listened to another metal master in comparison, i felt like my mastering was all cluttered sounding and mushy. Let me know what you think. I think I did sweeten the sound alot tought.

 

[AerialThesis]

I notice there is a little clic at 25 second. I think it's your vocal stub that was edited too hard and, by mastering it i caused it too sound clear and apparent. I guess you could make a fast dip in volume at that certain point to cut it out.

 

[solphilcox]

hey man! thanks for doing this.

not wanting to shoot you down or anything but the first thing that hit me was 'where are the guitars?' they seem to have lost definition in the mix, and the snare is now way too loud. This is actually a good thing because you have maintained the original sound of the mix, but i always mix my snare higher so i can push the level on the master and bring the guitars up. The snare sound i used wasn't the type that is supposed to have that level of prominence in the mix. my fault entirely, that's just something i forgot to mention. (fail)

also, it seems like your master is about 60% as loud as mine and the handful of commercial recordings i compared it too. were you just giving me this to maximize myself?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2769770/Poor God (Sol Philcox).m4a

Here's my first shot at mastering it. I sense my monitors generate too much highs for my taste since I ended up killing some high end, that i tought was too harsh, and then when i listened to another metal master in comparison, i felt like my mastering was all cluttered sounding and mushy. Let me know what you think. I think I did sweeten the sound alot tought.

 

[AerialThesis]

I simply believe that maximizing tracks sounds horrible. As compressed music allready sound disgusting and badly defined. I am totally against current ways of mastering music. I can't help to feel disgusted at mixes that has no dynamics at all for it is part of the musicality of a song. I understand why you needed tips so your your mix wouldn't clip, but you are doing the same thing as many bands out there who destroys their sound quality only for volume purposes. My mastering is as hot as metal should be in my own opininion. If I want more volume I can raise the volume knob on my stereo at home, anybody can do it. For the guitars, I guess the guitars could come up a tad with a bit more highs, but it would result in the vocals losing clarity. For the snare, I believe it sounds perfect here on my monitors. As I said tought, I reallly think my monitors are giving me to much highs, since i ended up cutting in that frequency range that took off the guitars definition. I should really listen to my mastering and yours on different monitors for I sense we aren't hearing the same thing at all. I'll probably add a second attempt soon anyways.

 

[Ganks]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2769770/Poor God (Sol Philcox).m4a

Here's my first shot at mastering it. I sense my monitors generate too much highs for my taste since I ended up killing some high end, that i tought was too harsh, and then when i listened to another metal master in comparison, i felt like my mastering was all cluttered sounding and mushy. Let me know what you think. I think I did sweeten the sound alot tought.

You completely ruined this mix with that mastering, I believe.

It's overly muffled, too quiet, and the clarity that was there is completely gone.
Upon comparing yours and the OP's, it's as if you "un-mastered" it.

 

[solphilcox]

hey i wouldn't say it 'ruined' it by any means, but to my (honest) ears it definately sounds worse than both my master and the original unmastered mixdown. I completely understand what you said about 'if i want more volume, i can turn it up on my volume knob at home', but sadly in this day and age with the whole myriad of recordings that are out there it really is vital that a recording stands up equally to whatever might be played before/after it volume-wise. Even to people who don't know anything about mastering/production, an instant psychological judgement is made that a recording is 'bad' if it is quiter then whatever else they last listened to. The gradual increase in the 'normal' radio volume in mastering has killed music to an extent, and it is a sad thing that everything now has to be loud and in your face. BUT it is possible to maintain dynamics and warmth while pumping the volume, which i guess is why a professional sounding mastering sound is so sought-after and elusive; and why many consider mastering to be even more important than the actual mix itself. It's all very well having punk rock ideas towards music mastering, but it would take a serious revolution in the aforementioned norms/standards for this to actually work. it would be like someone saying 'i hate the sound of tube amps, marshall mg15s simply sound the best to my ears'. nobody can take your preference away from you but you can't expect the world to do anything other than dismiss it cynically.

regarding the snare, it may sit well through your monitors or whatever, but the tonal balance between snare/guitars/vocals is all over the place. It almost sounds like an ezdrummer mapped midi drum track with some dry guitar overdubs from a generic POD patch into a tascam 4-track or something, and definately doesn't sound like an actual band playing a song. I'm sure technically you know exactly what you are doing with your plugins and your frequencies etc, but it seems like you overthinked it and lost sight of what joe public actually wants to hear. My monitors and mixing room are totally shitty, i don't hear low end at all and the highs are all over the place; but i make sure i am constantly a/b-ing with carefully selected commercial productions to maintain this. I would love to hear what you can do though, please feel free to fuck around with the tracks and do what you like (within this forum obviously), i will be doing the same.

 

[RCW]

i dig the shit out of this band. i like your mix too. cool sounding drums. i feel like i have heard this band before. any chance i could get there name? it sounds like as hell retreats from nashville, tn. i could be wrong but if that's who it that would be some funny shit.

 

[solphilcox]

i dig the shit out of this band. i like your mix too. cool sounding drums. i feel like i have heard this band before. any chance i could get there name? it sounds like as hell retreats from nashville, tn. i could be wrong but if that's who it that would be some funny shit.

OH SNAP!!

you are absolutely correct, it is indeed as hell retreats!

 

[RCW]

haha that's fuckin hilarious only because they recorded their last album with some jackass and I am the one that mixed it. What you have done sounds miles above what I did with their last album though. I really dig their music and your recordings. I actually live in bowling green, ky not too far from you. Do you have a myspace for your studio or anything?

 

[solphilcox]

haha that's fuckin hilarious only because they recorded their last album with some jackass and I am the one that mixed it. What you have done sounds miles above what I did with their last album though. I really dig their music and your recordings. I actually live in bowling green, ky not too far from you. Do you have a myspace for your studio or anything?

haha no shit?! that's badass. was that their full-length that they did like 3 years ago? i liked the sound on that. totally flawed, but from what i gather that was in the actual recording and not the mix. kick drum sounds massive on that shit.

nah i don't have a myspace, or a studio for that matter. I am a 'kid with a laptop and some plugins' so calling myself a producer/studio manager would be suicide on this forum haha. I am actually a full-time session/road guitarist on the country scene in nashville, just started fucking around and recording in my garage for fun and these guys are good friends of mine. They just paid to do an ep at some studio in indiana or somewhere, it sounded great but they couldn't afford to really make it into a full-scale production and spend time on overdubs and stuff, so they scrapped it and came to me asking just to do some rough pre-production so they could shop for a deal and ultimately some investment to make a legit full-length. it ended up working out so they decided to just make this the record. I have been working for free, as this experience is absolutely golden to me and it's a hellova lot of fun.

i'm gonna go grab some headphones from the garage and check out your recordings right now.

damn. small world.

 

[RCW]

haha no shit?! that's badass. was that their full-length that they did like 3 years ago? i liked the sound on that. totally flawed, but from what i gather that was in the actual recording and not the mix. kick drum sounds massive on that shit.

nah i don't have a myspace, or a studio for that matter. I am a 'kid with a laptop and some plugins' so calling myself a producer/studio manager would be suicide on this forum haha. I am actually a full-time session/road guitarist on the country scene in nashville, just started fucking around and recording in my garage for fun and these guys are good friends of mine. They just paid to do an ep at some studio in indiana or somewhere, it sounded great but they couldn't afford to really make it into a full-scale production and spend time on overdubs and stuff, so they scrapped it and came to me asking just to do some rough pre-production so they could shop for a deal and ultimately some investment to make a legit full-length. it ended up working out so they decided to just make this the record. I have been working for free, as this experience is absolutely golden to me and it's a hellova lot of fun.

i'm gonna go grab some headphones from the garage and check out your recordings right now.

damn. small world.

I know man! Such as small world. Yea it was that very album. It was recorded at some really bad studio and the guy didn't know shit about metal recording. I ended up just replacing everything with drumagog and doin the best i could with it but it wasn't recorded to a click either from what I remember.

Either way, I am stoked they are getting some good recordings. They are most def gonna go some where and you'll get major cred when they do. It's funny cause I offered to record this album as well... haha but I was going to charge them a bit. Now I understand why they didn't take me up that. Can't beat free! It does really sound like you have a solid grasp on what you are doing though. I would love to talk some more about what you are doing and even maybe come check out your set up one day.

Feel free to contact me on here or through that myspace if you get some spare time.

 

[AerialThesis]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2769770/Poo...cs - 0 Macrodynamics - -9 dBFS Rms Level).m4a

Better?

 

[solphilcox]

I know man! Such as small world. Yea it was that very album. It was recorded at some really bad studio and the guy didn't know shit about metal recording. I ended up just replacing everything with drumagog and doin the best i could with it but it wasn't recorded to a click either from what I remember.

Either way, I am stoked they are getting some good recordings. They are most def gonna go some where and you'll get major cred when they do. It's funny cause I offered to record this album as well... haha but I was going to charge them a bit. Now I understand why they didn't take me up that. Can't beat free! It does really sound like you have a solid grasp on what you are doing though. I would love to talk some more about what you are doing and even maybe come check out your set up one day.

Feel free to contact me on here or through that myspace if you get some spare time.

ah man that's awesome! would love to hang out and talk some more about this stuff. 'a solid grasp' is a good way to describe what i'm doing, i have good ears for knowing what sounds good just from working in pro studios and seeing what goes on. the technology side escapes me sometimes and i make fundamental errors like clipping (lol) etc and stuff like that, but i'm working on it and just trying to build up my setup whenever i get some free cash. would be happy to have you down here anytime! i'm in hendersonville, north of nashville.

here's an unmastered mixdown so you can hear it without my gay tc electronic plugins:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4165896/poor god UNMASTERED MIXDOWN.wav

anyone please feel free to have a stab at mastering this!

 

[solphilcox]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2769770/Poo...cs - 0 Macrodynamics - -9 dBFS Rms Level).m4a

Better?

man this is great level-wise, and i like what you've done to bring the cymbals out. There still seems to be something weird in the EQ though, it has lost a lot of the low midrange warmth and as a result the overall mix is losing balls.

I redid mine, upon listening back there seemed to be a lot of nasty harsh high end in the vocals that was stepping all over the guitars, same with the snare. i have attempted to fix this and had another go at mastering it. I didn't just throw the x5 on it this time, i eq'd it, increased the stereo field just a tad and put a maximiser on it after the finalizer just to push it that little harder. here it is:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4165896/poor god master3.wav

 

[flashGX]

Hey,

Really digging the song, great mastering job on version 0.2 aerialthesis, sounds really good man!

Looking forward to watching this progress!

Kris

 

[Timelesseer]

First post here for me, but I just wanted to say I'm loving the song. The lead tone on the bridge and outro is amazing. Love the heavy delay on it. Just has that warm, juicy tone to it haha. Great job on the production and mastering guys, really looking forward to the album release!

Eric

 

[solphilcox]

thanks man! the lead stuff was done with a USA standard strat with joe bardens, really happy with how it came out. The delay was from a pigtronix echolution, with added stereo delay on pro tools (just the standard delay that comes with LE)