Now Van's open to a reunion

They're doing so well because Mastodon write genre-bending, epic music that has album of the year written all over each one. LoG and SF were part of the big NWOAHM scene in the early to mid 2000s, and LoG pretty much took over as the new Pantera. Both bands have fantastic musicians and wrote radio and MTV-friendly heavy metal that went along with the current trend. Mastodon is the new Pink Floyd of heavy metal...there aren't many people writing interesting music in the metal mainstream like Mastodon.

I'll disagree with you only slightly. The lineage is Pink Floyd -> Tool -> Mastodon.

LoG is definitely the new Pantera. Like I said, Blythe is Anselmo without the drugs. SF's success kinda eludes me. It can't be entirely on the strength of Bittner. If that were the case, Jeff should have carried Nevermore to success.

The question then becomes why Nevermore didn't latch on to the NWOAHM burst of the mid 00s. They had the fucking material. Come on, DHiaDW, EoR and TGE? Was it the lack of Ozzfests? Say what you will, that tour broke a lot of bands. Many more than Gigantour did. Disturbed and Slipknot owe a large portion of their careers to Ozzfest. SF did 3, LoG did 2, Mastodon did 1.

Nevermore did no Ozzfests but In Flames, Lacuna Coil and Soilwork all did. I guess Century Media couldn't afford to buy enough slots (rumor is bands had to pay $75k to get on the gig). Man I'd hate to think the band's success could have changed just by bribing Sharon Osbourne into a vital opening tour position.
 
I don't think NM had the material for the NWOAHM...remember it was all about breakdowns and screamo vocals with annoying clean choruses and incessant 2/4 polka drumming with generic sweeping solos. Nevermore really branched out on each record and never belonged anywhere. Dane's voice is not for the mainstream through no fault of his own, of course. Nevermore never got REALLY big because they wrote the music they wanted to write. I can almost guarantee you that SF didn't have 100% creative control over their albums, nor was their decision to jump on the bandwagon not influenced by the possibility of more money, bigger productions, etc. They were A LOT more abrasive and aggressive on their early stuff around the late 90's/early 2000.

Also, NM has played just about any place people would let them. I'm sure they didn't play Ozzfest because neither they nor Century Media wanted to pay Sharon Osbourne $100,000 to let NM play, which is what happens on that festival tour. Ozzfest is a total bag of shit anyway...has been ever since the late 90's. But NM has played just about ALL of the big Euro fests which make Ozzfest look like a club show. Wacken, Metalcamp, Hellfest, Sonisphere, etc...they always played shows everywhere, even that shitty festival here called Gods of Metal. Worst festival ever, but NM played in the rain in 2004.

Although they may have never become rich, TGE significantly boosted their footprint and garnered lots of attention. At that time, mags like Revolver and others were all jumping on the "solos are cool again so it's ok to like bands who play well" bandwagon, and I remember several articles in big mags like Revolver and such with NM in them. However, I think NM still did what they've always done and do things their own way. They're a melodic thrash band with flecks of prog thrown in there in places. However, to the average listener (i.e., people who don't know dick about music) they may come off as a bit too power-y metal.
 
I don't find whats confusing about it, the bands / artists on the left are the people Loomis associates / tours with now, and the bands on the right are types of tours he USED to be on. I thought it was pretty spot on actually.

Granted its proven to be wrong, but none the less its still funny.

Basically why go from a band that plays festivals like Wacken in front of a shit ton of fans, to playing in small clubs all over the world to make pennies.

Thought it was pretty clear when I saw it the first time, and still is to me now. Guess its a musicians thing.
 
Um, Meshuggah do world tours...my cousin just saw them in Denver. Meshuggah play at Wacken. Meshuggah played Ozzfest. I saw them at Metalcamp. They play just about every major festival in the world and do their own world tours. Meshuggah are insanely popular, and to say "guess it's a musicians thing", as if to say, 1. None of us are musicians and, 2. Meshuggah somehow aren't serious musicians, when not a single band on the right side of that photo could hold the cock of anyone in Meshuggah is a bit insulting. So no, it doesn't make sense.

Yes, we know you know some of these people personally. Yes, we know you work/run your own studio. The funny thing is, one would think that someone like yourself would see its stupidity, obtuseness, and flat-out vacuity of that picture, yet not only do you not see how wrong it is, but you AGREE with it.

Let me be clear: I understand the point it tried to make, but whoever made it is an idiot and not because they're bashing Jeff. They're an idiot because you don't make a comparison to work AGAINST the point you're trying to make...unless you're an idiot. They're an idiot because according to the pic, they seem to think that bands like Exodus, NM, and Testament make tons of money, and that bands like Meshuggah are just kids' bands. Machine Head has always been rather mainstream but recently has started doing really well for themselves...and it's not because of their less-than-stellar albums as of late, it's because they wrote a really good album in 1996 (really good for being 1996) and had a few peaks along the way. Why the hell would anyone want to play the same shit a bunch of 80's bands whose members are pushing 50 play? Testament is Testament. We don't need another one. Justin Bieber sells out concerts ten times over as the bands on the right...should he start playing for Bieber?

That pic is the equivalent of a fan making fun of a AAA minor league baseball player who chose to move up to MLB instead of being the starting pitcher for a bunch of old has-beens bumped down to the minor leagues from the majors, and the fan is giving him shit because he's playing for the Yankees. Sadly, it seems Jeff is in another sport altogether.

Not only that, the wording of that pic is all kinds of fucked up.
 
Um, Meshuggah do world tours...my cousin just saw them in Denver. Meshuggah play at Wacken. Meshuggah played Ozzfest. I saw them at Metalcamp. They play just about every major festival in the world and do their own world tours. Meshuggah are insanely popular, and to say "guess it's a musicians thing", as if to say, 1. None of us are musicians and, 2. Meshuggah somehow aren't serious musicians, when not a single band on the right side of that photo could hold the cock of anyone in Meshuggah.

So no, it doesn't make sense.

I honestly had not listened to much Meshuggah until about a month ago, because what I had heard bored me to death. So I forced myself to listen to Destroy Erase Improve, Chaosphere as well as Contradictions Collapse more than any of their others. Even after almost a hundred hours, I could probably only name two songs off of any of them that stand out to me. Most of them just have a really cool measure somewhere, and then it's back to what sounds like the same chugging.

They remind me of Dream Theater so much it's not even funny--in a bad way. I think my favorite album of theirs so far is Contradictons, but it just sounds like Master of Puppets and And Justice For All played much better with vocals that sound like a cross between a drunken Mustaine and Hetfield.
 
No one can REALLY remember Meshuggah's songs, at least not in the same way you'd remember a regular song with verse, chorus, etc. It's weird music and extremely technical.

There is no other band like Meshuggah out there, period. It's not something you can get into...you either connect with it or you don't. Even so, it's difficult to listen to for an extended period of time. It's very claustrophobic.
 
Even when they slow their shit down to a crawl, it's hard to wrap your head around it...there's so much shit going on, and not in a terrible way like Periphery. If you wanna hear Meshuggah and Dream Theater crossed with metalcore, that's it...and crossed badly. They're a perfect example why you can have all the chops in the world and still be a terrible band.

I haven't heard Meshuggah's new album yet, but if it sounds like this I'm gonna love it. This is really groovy this time around.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9LpMZuBEMk&feature=relmfu[/ame]
 
No one can REALLY remember Meshuggah's songs, at least not in the same way you'd remember a regular song with verse, chorus, etc. It's weird music and extremely technical.

There is no other band like Meshuggah out there, period. It's not something you can get into...you either connect with it or you don't. Even so, it's difficult to listen to for an extended period of time. It's very claustrophobic.

Heh, I don't dislike them, but they just don't write what I could consider a song, in the typical sense. I can listen to them for hours on end as background noise, but so far they are not what I would use as an example of music you would jam to or listen to for some kind of emotional response.

This is probably the most memorable song that they have. To me at least, for now:



I haven't heard Meshuggah's new album yet, but if it sounds like this I'm gonna love it. This is really groovy this time around.


Haha, nevermind. I'm dumb. I was thinking "Man, that song sounds a hell of a lot like something that would be on Koloss". I've only listened to that album once entirely so far, but from the start it was definitely a change of pace. And yeah, the entire album is pretty groovy and may as well be Meshuggah's "Black" album.

 
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Ozzfest is a total bag of shit anyway...has been ever since the late 90's. But NM has played just about ALL of the big Euro fests which make Ozzfest look like a club show. Wacken, Metalcamp, Hellfest, Sonisphere, etc...they always played shows everywhere, even that shitty festival here called Gods of Metal. Worst festival ever, but NM played in the rain in 2004.

A) It doesn't matter what your opinion of Ozzfest is, it's undeniable that it played a role in breaking a lot of the big name bands today, whether it's Disturbed, SoaD, Slipknot, or moderate successes. Lacuna Coil owe their profile in the US to Ozzfest.

B) No band has sold a record or a concert ticket in the US for playing every European metal festival. That means nothing here.

Nevermore needed one of three things to break through: 1) get on an Ozzfest or two, 2) get on a big festival like Mayhem or Uproar (no, Gigantour does not count) or 3) a big opening slot. Those are all too rare. Iron Maiden did their last tour with Alice Cooper, while Priest did a farewell tour with Black Label Society and Thin Lizzy. Way to pass the torch, you fucking old farts.

Volbeat's big breakthrough here in the U.S. can be attributed to one thing: they opened for Metallica on the Death Magnetic tour, along with Lamb of God.

You think that didn't make a huge difference? Volbeat came through here on a headline tour recently. Their opening act? Iced Earth. Yes, Iced Earth, OPENING for Volbeat.

Occasionally there's dumb luck. For the life of me I can't believe how Rammstein grew into a monster. I saw Rammstein for the first time in 1997 opening for KMFDM and Lords of Acid. 15 years later, Rammstein headlined MSG and then arenas around the U.S. and they had no festivals or record label at all. They hadn't even toured America in 10 years. That is a mystery to me.
 
Haha Lords of Acid FTW!!!! Disturbed, SOAD, and Slipknot are popular because they make simple, angst-y teen "metal". Ozzfest helped them but that's not why they're famous. They're famous for the same reason Korn and Limp Bizkit became famous: most of the mainstream has shit taste in music. Lacuna Coil are from here and no one likes them because they started pandering to Ozzfest-type bands. Everything after Comalies is shit. They wanted to make more money so they started playing bland, simplistic metal like Disturbed and SOAD and Slipknot (although they're the least worst). It's so funny. When I got here no one really cared about Lacuna Coil because everyone in the metal scene in Milano was like, "Yeah, that's Cristina's band". Now no one really cares about them because everyone in the metal scene here is like, "Yeah, that's Cristina's band that used to write decent music, but then they wanted to play American bro nu-jock metal and so no one cares anymore."

I don't think if NM had played Ozzfest that they would've had the success of bands like Pantera, LoG, Machine Head, etc. Look at all the terrible bands on Ozzfest...Bury Your Dead? Ozzfest didn't help them any. There's a misconception that people make more money touring the US, when in fact many bands LOSE money touring the US if it's not opening for a big headliner like Metallica or on a big festival circuit.

Also, saying that no band has sold a record or a concert ticket in the US for playing all the Euro festivals is just untrue. How do you think metal made its way back to the mainstream in the US? All these Euro bands are able to tour the US simply because of the fans' support for them, and that support came long before they were playing in the US. That support is what made them able to come play in the US. In fact, unless we're talking about big tours and big bands and big festivals, many bands don't like touring the US. It's too expensive, too few dates to justify the time spent traveling, and the promoters often treat smaller bands like crap. Ask Therion how they liked their last US tour. Ask Moonspell as well, while you're at it. All the Euro bands who love touring the states have done it on big tours, not their own small headlining tours or opening up for another small headliner.

Have you ever been to a festival over here? The festivals here are above and beyond festivals like Ozzfest and Mayhem. So many more bands, better promoters, better organizers, etc. I think you're a little out of touch if you think that the US is somehow the golden goose of touring. The 80's and 90's are over. Unless you're on a really big bill or opening for Metallica like Gojira, you're just gonna lose money. There are so many fans in the US and they're plugged into the scene just as much as everyone else, so bands don't need to tour the US on small club shows and lose their hat to be known. Gojira released three albums before setting foot in the US. Malevolent Creation is from Florida and have sworn off touring the US completely.. They only do Euro and South America shows. The reason people want the US market is that it's huge, but breaking into that market is very, very difficult. You have to be willing to either sell out or nearly sell out in order to "sell out" your shows.

Furthermore, a lot of American festivals have terrible lineups. Mayhem has Slipknot, Motorhead, Slayer, and Anthrax as headliners? And the supporting bands are bands like As I Lay Dying and The Devil Wears Prada? Asking Alexandra? BLECH. Those bands would be ONE DAY on ONE STAGE at Wacken, Metalcamp, or Hellfest. Also, you can see by the billing that American music trends play a bigger part in choosing the support bands rather than "passing the torch" or even what the fans really want to see. You have to ask yourself how it is that more American metal bands tour Europe than European bands tour America.
 
I saw Rammstein for the first time in 1997 opening for KMFDM

man, i would shank a hobo for a trip back in time to see KMFDM in 1997. Rammstein would be a bonus but i did see them the next year with ice cube and (barf) korn and (violently hurl) limp bizkit.
 
This thread seems to ask the question, "Why isn't good always popular?" It's like asking why the good guys don't always win or why bad things happen to good people.

Here's a reminder of the top 10 in sales:

1. The Beatles
2. Elvis
3. Michael Jackson
4. Madonna
5. Elton John
6. Led Zeppelin
7. Queen
8. ABBA
9. Mariah Carey
10. Celine Dion

These artists all have one thing in common... a lot of sales. Trying to imply anything else seems silly.

There is a general rule that artists are more successful in their original band than they are when they go solo. Paul McCartney, Robert Plant, Brian May, and Jimmy Page are notably missing from that list. There are exceptions but it does seem unlikely that Loomis will do as well solo as he did with Nevermore.

Some guitarists do ok solo if they can sing... Eric Clapton, for example. Generally guitarists do better with joining a new band than they do with remaining solo. Both of these guitarists made it big with Yardbirds but went on to even greater success later. Jimmy Page's band makes #6 on the above list. Eric Clapton doesn't even chart in the top 50.

The best chance Loomis has for financial success, really, is if he were to join a band to make a currently or upcoming trending sub-genre of metal. This even seems likely based on the stuff he has on Soundcloud.

But the real point, to me, is that financial success isn't a very good indicator for whether or not I will listen to it or consider it great or classic. Celine Dion will never outrank Nevermore for me. If we feel like that goes without saying, then why compare their success to Mastodon and Lamb of God? In my view, there is not now and has never been any relationship between good and popular.
 
man, i would shank a hobo for a trip back in time to see KMFDM in 1997. Rammstein would be a bonus but i did see them the next year with ice cube and (barf) korn and (violently hurl) limp bizkit.

How's this for a triple bill: Lords of Acid, with Jade 4U, KMFDM with Esch, Shultz and Skold, and Rammstein making their US debut, complete with Til set on fire and the giant dildo spraying the audience.

That was what I saw in late fall 1997. One of my most memorable concerts ever.
 
rammstein still had that stuff going and lots more, but when i saw the 'new' KMFDM in 2002 skold was busy (producing a marilyn manson album i believe) and of course en esch and shultz were not in the reformed KMFDM :(

lucia and pig were there, it was still a great fuckin show, but i wouldve really liked to have seen em with skold
 
I think this is the first time I've seen anyone post about KMFDM around here. I really like Nihil and Angst quite a bit. My introduction to the band was actually through a US Manga ad too. :lol: I think most probably heard it from the Chun Li shower scene though. It's too bad most anime sucks ass anymore though compared to the offerings of the 90's aside from the ultra rare movies.



BTW, I hope you've seen Ninja Scroll...
 
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That song was PERFECT for a trailer. I wish someone else would use it. Sasha could use the payday.

And really, when it comes to being stubborn fools, KMFDM are being as bad as Pink Floyd. Slick Idiot is going nowhere and KMFDM is a shell of itself. It's time to settle some differences already.