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The Grayfox

#MusicTheoryBro
Feb 27, 2004
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Bay Area, CA
We need more discussion around here and until In Flames gets ready to release another... *ahem* masterpiece that we can all... *ahem* praise lovingly, we need some new topics. What are the N'Flaymz fanbois watching these days?

I watch a lot of shows and movies while I work, so I burn through them relatively quickly. My upcoming watchlist looks like this:

The Shield
Succession
Shameless
House of Cards
Boardwalk Empire
 
I am rewatching Beverly Hills 90210 at the moment, lmao. But I'm coming up to the end of season 6 and it starts to suck from season 7 onwards, so I might stop there.

In terms of what I'm planning to watch - the new series of Black Mirror, as the previous seasons are all fantastic, and the Takeshi's Castle reboot whenever that becomes available in the UK. Apparently Jushin Liger is in it!
 
I've watched a few episodes of Black Mirror here and there. Pretty damn good anthology series. Beverly Hills, 90210? Jesus, what the hell are you doing over there? :D
 
There are a few Black Mirror episodes which don't quite hit the mark, but I'd say I really enjoy 90% of them, so I'm looking forward to watching the new stuff. Hopefully I'm not disappointed.

For the record, I don't typically watch stuff like BH90210 😂 I watched it for the first time back in 2013, purely for a laugh as I was going to LA and it was topical. I got sucked in and here we are today, lmao. I never watched the reboots or anything like that, I think it's just the whole 90s aesthetic that pulls me in. It's an absolutely ridiculous series in so many ways, but that's kind of why I like it. Up to a point, anyway. Once Dylan leaves it just ain't the same, bro.
 
Well, we've watched two episodes of Black Mirror season 6 so far - "Joan is Awful" and "Loch Henry", and I found them both pretty bad. "Joan is Awful" is just a derivitive rehash of stories they've done far better in previous seasons, with childish storytelling at times. "Loch Henry" didn't even feel like a Black Mirror episode. I found it boring and felt like it simply relied on shock value to make itself 'different'. I've seen plenty of takes defending it, but I felt like I wasted an hour watching something I wouldn't normally watch. I won't spoil anything in case either of you watch the series in future, but I'm distinctly underwhelmed by the first two episodes of this season. It doesn't feel like it captures the uniqueness of the previous seasons in any way. At times the episodes feel like a caricature of the show they're meant to be part of.

It's a shame because there are so many older BM episodes I would and have rewatched many times. Not all of them were "dystopian futuristic tech nightmare", but I still enjoyed them.

Fifteen Million Merits
White Bear
White Christmas
Playtest
San Junipero
USS Callister
Hang the DJ
Striking Vipers
Smithereens

I absolutely love all of the above episodes, and all have different themes and are set in different times - some near to current day, others further in the future.

There are some episodes I had little time for - but they were still interesting albeit not ones I really want to rewatch. The first two of S6 have been totally shit for me so far though. If the third episode is a disappointment as well then I'll give up hope.
 
Black Mirror is very hit or miss for me, which is going to happen with an anthology show. People absolutely lost their minds over The National Anthem and I just didn't see what was so special about it. Same with Fifteen Million Merits -- I was bored watching it. I know everyone loves that episode, but it did nothing for me. On the flip side, I didn't think Loch Henry was terrible, but I also have a soft spot for straight forward mystery like that. I still read detective series and murder mystery books. They just draw me in. If I can find ones where I don't see the twist coming, that's a bigger plus. That's hard to do at this point. In terms of the style of Black Mirror, Loch Henry didn't really fit but oh well. Mazey Day, which is in season 6, I believe is the worst rated episode of the entire show, so look forward to that.

Speaking of anthology series', I've been meaning to go back to American Horror Story but I just haven't been able to justify it. I love horror, but I also think there needs to be intrigue and some mystery and I just didn't get that from the first season. When stories start with a flash forward to the present and then go back and you're supposed to believe "oh ok, there's going to be some kind of twist as to how they got there" but it just ends up being... no, that's just what happened and we felt like showing you first, it takes me out of watching it. Like, why am I watching this if I already know what is going to happen? I don't remember if that's what season 1 of AHS was like, but I do remember thinking "where's the suspense of something interesting happening?" I felt like I knew what was going to happen at every turn and shows and movies like that are very hard for me to get into. It goes back to really enjoying mystery in my entertainment. I want to be surprised, I want to be able to think after the fact "holy shit, I didn't see that coming." Obviously with certain types of film, you don't get that. Comedies, bios, drama, whatever. But in horror and thrillers and the like, I feel like it is absolutely necessary for me to enjoy it. AHS didn't seem to have it.
 
As far as The National Anthem, I didn't like it either. I thought the general concept was interesting, but the way it was conceived was crude and largely unrealistic in terms of how the situation would unfold. I've never gone back and rewatched it.

SPOILERS AHEAD FOR LOCH HENRY, FIFTEEN MILLION MERITS, WHITE BEAR & SHUT UP AND DANCE

The problem with Loch Henry, for me, is that it focuses on two genres I have no interest in - True Crime and Horror. I never watch this kind of stuff. I know the episode was ultimately targetting both in a negative way, but 98% of the episode was just played straight, with the final few minutes making the point. The balance was too far towards a basic, linear narrative without any elements that interested me. The other problem I have is that the 'morals' of the episode - that the obsession with true crime stuff is ghoulish and entertainment bosses are greedy pieces of shit who only care about money and ratings - are nothing new or thought-provoking. For me it was like, yeah, and? This is hardly groundbreaking social commentary. I'd be worried if people need those things spelled out to them at this point. There's also incredible hypocrisy when this tale is being told via Netflix, for obvious reasons.

Fifteen Million Merits basically told the same story, but replacing true crime with reality TV. What made that episode interesting to me was the dystopian future it was set in. Throughout that story you see how the people involved have had their lives warped and degraded by the obsession with reality TV, and how even in this grim world they're a part of, they're still hooked on reality TV as it's all they have left to get enjoyment out of. It also targets stuff like microtransactions and wasting money on stupid stuff like avatars, fake nonsense that gives a brief dopamine rush but provides nothing meaningful.

Loch Henry doesn't really go into the same depth in any way. It's just played as a straight horror/thriller/mystery until the final few minutes, and even that left me perplexed. I just don't think it's realistic in the slightest that a guy who has just lost his mother to suicide, has a girlfriend missing/presumed dead, and has just found out his parents are sadistic murderers would have gone along with creating, producing and being a central part of this documentary. Especially within what seems like the span of a few months. I couldn't really suspend my disbelief when it came to him being on stage collecting an award for this, being interviewed for the documentary, etc. There's no indication his girlfriend was ever found either, and you're telling me this guy wouldn't be implicated in some kind of police investigation? I don't buy it. It didn't make any sense to me. It just felt like poor writing.

So yeah, the idea that this episode was some kind of great insight into modern obsessions with true crime and entertainment left me cold. They've done it before, and in my view done it better - White Bear is another example of the same basic premise, and this actually did have some elements of horror in as well, but was executed in a much more intriguing way. The thing that White Bear and Shut Up and Dance both did well is that they made you sympathetic towards the main character, only to find out at the end that said character had sone something really heinous, putting you on the other side of the fence and putting the episode in a completely different light. The twists in both were genuinely surprising and thought-provoking, whereas in Loch Henry the "twist" was pretty mid as I didn't really have much connection to the main charatcer or his parents.

If they don't have any new ideas I'm not sure if there was much point in bringing the series back.
 
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If they don't have any new ideas I'm not sure if there was much point in bringing the series back.

Probably money I guess. So many series' stick around way longer than they should and eventually jump the shark. Black Mirror has it's share of sci-fi/dystopian themes and that's probably why it's hit or miss for me. I do like some sci-fi, but I was never the kid obsessed with Star Wars or anything. In fact, I don't like Star Wars at all :D I've always been into mystery, horror, noir, true crime, and fantasy. I usually lean into one of those and in a lot of cases, they cross over (except for fantasy really). I was obsessed with The X-Files when I was a kid which you could argue as mild sci-fi I guess? It's weird, I have plenty of friends who love sci-fi and I'm like the only one not into it. Even with gaming, I actively avoid space themes and the like. If you set me in a fantasy theme, medieval theme, modern day, war times, whatever, I'm into it, I just can't get into science fiction.
 
Well, I'm definitely a fan of sci-fi, but some of my favourite BM episodes only have minor sci-fi elements. Fifteen Million Merits for example is set in some kind of dystopian future (it's never explicitly explained what has happened for the people to be in that biking facility), but the majority of it is based around things that exist now - social media/networks, reality TV, etc. Playtest, San Junipero, USS Callister and Striking Vipers are based on VR technology in a slightly more advanced state of directly connecting to the brain, which Elon Musk has already been discussing as possible and in trial stages. Hang the DJ is based on a visual representation of dating app algorithms. Smithereens basically has no sci-fi elements and is just about social media.

I don't feel like seasons 1-5 are explictly on the sci-fi scale - they obviously take elements from the genre, but it's not like Star Wars, Star Trek (USS Callister aside, obviously), Battleship Galactica, etc... what I mainly want from Black Mirror is an interesting story that has a strong link to current/near-future tech and a thought-provoking take on the situation being presented. I didn't think Loch Henry nailed any of that - I appreciate some people would find the story interesting, but it feels like it could have been an episode of any average anthology series and had nothing particularly new or challenging to posit. You mentioned American Horror Story and I feel like it's closer to that than it is Black Mirror.

But yeah I guess it's mainly a money thing. If people are watching/enjoying S6 then cool, but the first two episodes have left me thinking Brooker has run out of steam as a writer. He's not always been on point with some of his stories, but the first two episodes of this season just feel like going through the motions.
 
X-Files is an interesting one as it's really a mix of multiple genres. Horror, sci fi, mystery, thriller, crime, etc... I watched the first four seasons during the pandemic (having watched the show on and off when I was younger) and the thing that struck me most was how standalone most of the episodes were. Something major would happen but then by the next episode it would pretty much be forgotten about, only to be brought up again maybe in the season finale or something. I guess that was just the nature of episodic television in the 90s, but there were a lot of plot threads that just hung there and were never followed up on, which is a bit jarring when you're watching the show in a marathon-type way.
 
The thing about The X-Files is, sometimes they’ll revisit things 5, 6, 7 seasons after the fact. But you’re right, it was very much a 90s episodic show. But there’s a certain magic in it as well. Some of those stand alone episodes are very good. It is one of my favorite shows of all time, but I was also watching it as it was unfolding. To a new viewer, it may not hold up, I don’t know. Big changes have been made to how shows are presented now, mostly for the better I think. Some of that style does still exist where the series is mainly comprised of stand alone episodes and there’s a few main story arc episodes scattered throughout the series. In general, I appreciate the cohesive story that a series can tell without a bunch of stand alone stuff breaking it up. The X-Files is mostly nostalgia at this point for me.
 
It's a cool show and I enjoyed rewatching it, but - having gotten used to such focused and linear storytelling in modern shows - it was bizarre to see something pretty big happen to Mulder or Scully, then have it not get followed up on at all for a while, if at all. You really want to see what happens next in that plot thread, but with the way the show is structured you either have to wait a while or it is just left as a mystery. I get it though, shows in that era weren't 10-15 hour movies, as modern TV shows essentially are. They were generally being watched week-to-week, and even if that wasn't the case, they were often in syndication. The idea was that a viewer could tune into any episode and be able to immediately get invested, without having to know what had happened in past episodes. It was before the days of binge watching. Star Trek: The Next Generation has the same concept, and that's one of my favourite TV shows of all time. It's actually quite nice that I can pick from a number of random episodes and be entertained by any of them, without having to remember what happened in the five episodes beforehand. There's something to be said for that style of show, too, and stuff like Black Mirror and American Horror Story is obviously of a similar mould.

We watched the third episode of Season 6 tonight, Beyond the Sea... another one that left me distinctly underwhelmed. The story wasn't bad, exactly, but the writing just feels cliché and immature compared to previous seasons. Not that those episodes were the height of art or anything, but the plots of the stories so far this season genuinely feel like they were written by a young teenager with little understanding of how the world really works.
 
On the other hand, the X-Files episode "Beyond the Sea" is pretty good. :D

It's pretty hard for me to go back and watch that old style of show. I have to really like the cast or the nostalgia of something I watched a long time ago. I rather enjoy a season of a show that feels like a really long movie. TNG has been recommended to me a few times over the years but for aforementioned reasons, I haven't given it a go.
 
As you aren't a fan of sci fi I doubt TNG would appeal to you tbh. There are some eps which are more just interesting stories than majorly sci (The Inner Light is a really cool example of this), but most of the episodes are pure sci fi.
 
Watched the final two episodes of BM S6, "Mazey Day" and "Demon 79".

Mazey Day... terrible. American Horror Story episode packaged as Black Mirror. What was the message here - "papparazi bad" ? Well no shit, you're about 20 years late in revealing that. I don't see how this is a Black Mirror episode. Since when has Black Mirror seriously dealt in the supernatural? Isn't the series supposed to be about actual threats, not cliché horror tropes?

Demon 79 is in the same vein, once again supernatural... but honestly, I enjoyed this one. I thought the dynamic between the demon and the woman was pretty humorous, and the story was alright. If it was an episode from a different show it'd be fine. Again, though... it's not a Black Mirror episode. What 'mirror' is this episode meant to be holding up?

So yeah, overall hugely disappointed with Season 6. Don't think I'll watch any of those episodes again.
 
I think Mazey Day is universally disliked. To me, it's just the usual thing; a show that loses it's way and it's quality after a number of seasons. It happens to the best of 'em.
 
In some ways, yeah. Season 5 had already shown signs of that, although I still liked most of the episodes, and those episodes still felt like Black Mirror, even if they weren't necessarily great.

There's been a 6 year break since then, and this is what Brooker comes back with? I mean, if the guy has no new ideas for BM then that's fine. As you say, shows run their course and people run out of ideas. Especially a show like BM which primarily has a single writer. That's quite normal. If Brooker wants to write fantasy/horror stuff though, why not create a new show instead? I know the answer is because the Black Mirror name has equity and he's capitalising on that rather than starting from scratch, but it's still bullshit.

It's a bit like In Flames releasing 'Siren Charms' under the In Flames banner rather than as a side project, which it should have been. It had nothing to do with what In Flames historically represented, but they stuck it under the in Flames name because of the value associated with that name - because they knew if SC was released as a random side project, much less people would give a shit or make excuses for it. I kind of feel the same about this season of BM - if it was released as some new, fantasy/horror themed anthology series, less people would be interested and less people would be willing to make excuses for the content. It'd just be seen as some average series with nothing new to offer. Because these are labelled as 'Black Mirror', though, people read into things that in all likelihood are probably not there, to make these bad/average episodes seem more meaningful than they actually are.
 
I started the Shield tonight. Watched 3 episodes and was very entertained. First, I started watching The Wire for the 4th or 5th time... for my money, that has to be one of the most overrated shows ever. I do not understand the praise for it at all. I have not made it past season 1 every time I've tried it. I find it dry and unbelievably boring. I know the argument is made that it's not supposed to be fast paced and it's about real life, etc. And if you like that, that's fine. But I'm watching TV to be entertained. If I wanted a fucking life sim, I'd go drive around San Francisco or Oakland and see crime in real time lol.
 
I haven't watched The Wire either. A lot of people said if I enjoy The Shield I should watch The Wire, but never got around to it. Maybe I'll give it a go at some point, but it's not like I'm short on stuff to watch as it is.

If you're enjoying the first few eps of The Shield then you're in for a treat, as from my perspective it only gets better as the show goes on. Genuinely isn't a single season that I consider weak, each one builds on the previous and introduces increasingly higher stakes. All of the guest actors nail their roles, and recurring characters do a fantastic job as well, really getting you invested in what they're doing.