Nuendo 3 VS Cubase 4/5

[Tesseract]

OK I've been using Nuendo 3 for a good 3-5 years now i reckon. I'm fed up with it because when ever i import drums that have been recorded in pro tools...i have to bring their volumes down by a good 6/10db as the master is clipping at around 3 to 5 db. In pro tools they'd be at -5db or so.

I just tried out Cubase 4 (cracked & unstable) out of interest. Imported the same drums. BAM master isn't clipping. The headroom or whatever is much better. The default EQs are cleaner....and everything is just popping out a little more without the master clippping...and im mixing in exactly the same way. The toms are THERE now instead of in the background. I dunno if they messed with the summing part of it? Anyway im quite impressed - though i guesss nuendo/cubase 3 is ancient now.

Anyway...i'm 99% sure im gonna order Cubase 4/5 tonight. I do want to go Pro Tools but thats gonna have to wait. Plus i want a Neve summing mixer dam it.

I've heard Cubase 4 is pretty dam buggy...anyone know how cubase 5 compares?

HEADROOM!

 

[006]

4 isn't nearly as buggy now, haha, it's been updated and I haven't had issues with mine yet from day 1.

Maybe it has to do with a setting in Nuendo when you import audio? That's very strange as Cubase is nothing more than Nuendo sans a few features. Maybe try putting Nuendo's settings to default and trashing the prefs folder (if on a mac) or just re-installing altogether?

I would say if you buy today, go with 4. It has been out long enough for fixes and updates, 5 is still getting bug reports coming in. You can always upgrade for like a small price later on once they get 5 straightened out.

My .02 cents

~006

 

[Tesseract]

Yeah its something i've noticed quite a bit recently. Nothing to do with pan law - though that can affect it. I imported the same drums into logic 8 and noticed the same thing. The drums were clipping in the master bus....but wernt in PT.

I know some DAW programs are set to +18db and some are +24db....or something like that. I don't know enough about it. I know its not the settings though. I've done many a fresh install and format in the past hehe.
The neve summing mixer manual even says something to that affecct as you can change the input value with jumpers to accommodate for different types of DAWs.

It must be something to do with the engine/summing?

Yeah i think ill buy 4 to be safe. I've found one where i can buy Cubase 4 for £300 then upgrade to cubase 5 (if its before march 31st) for 20 euros apparently.

"Cubase 4 Advanced Music Production" is the one above the "studio" version isn't it?

 

[006]

Yeah, if it doesn't say "Studio" or "Academic Version" (which is Studio, just a different box) or "LE" then it's the full version. That's so weird that it does that! I can imagine the frustration you have haha.

 

[006]

On a side, note, whatever you do, do it quick - I want some fresh Tesseract to blast!

 

[Tesseract]

Haha yeah thats why i want to get it now. I'm in the middle of tracking guitars....so before mixing it i'd like to have the best headroom possible. Nuendo 3 headroom doesn't seem to match PT....Cubase 4 does.
Seems to handle transients a little better aswell....never thought I'd say something like that about a piece of software but I can definatly hear a difference.

 

[Metaltastic]

WAIT WAIT WAIT - you are kidding when you talk about headroom, right? Or are you seriously gonna say next that PT starts "squawkin like a chicken?"

 

[Metaltastic]

Oh wait, just re-read, and you're actually saying PT has more headroom - well, I'll trust your experiences, but let me just say it frightens me how similar it sounds to this man of legend

 

[Jaymz]

Hahahaha so thats where the "BOOOOM" comes from

 

[Tesseract]

I can't remember the terms....all i know is when we record the drum at metropolis studios with pro tools, the master will be at around -5db or so.

I bring the wav files home, import into nuendo and the master clips at around +3/5db.

When i asked one of the engineers about it at metropolis he said Pro Tools runs at +18 ....or +24? I can't remember what term....dbu...dbv maybe i'm not sure. Nuendo 3 was lower by 8db or so. So guess this is whats doing it. I don't think headroom is the right word to use...but in a sense thats what it is i guess.

I know its not the options in nuendo as its an annoyance i've had for a long time.

 

[Tesseract]

hahaha BOOOOOM. NEEDS MORE BOOOOM

 

[Tesseract]

Someone else with Cubase/Nuendo 3 and Cubase 4 every noticed this? One of the engineers at Metropolis seemed to know a bit about it.

I'll export a an example when i get a moment next week.

It was annoying because as soon as i imported the drums into nuendo i'd have to bring the faders down by 6db or so. With cubase 4 i can leave them at unity and the master is fine. Just saying what i'm hearing and seeing

 

[Temps]

I used the same settings on my mic pres when I moved from SX3 to Studio 4 and had no problems and didn't need any extra gain or anything. Not exactly the same thing, though. Also haven't had any problems importing sounds recorded in SX3 to Studio 4. However, Studio 4 has been incredibly unstable for me to the point I've basically given up recording until my upgrade to 5 comes in.. and I tried every version of Studio from the one that came on the disc to the latest update.

 

[KeithTidd]

if you were using pro tools HD, it could be the 48bit engine that keeps the headroom. I'm no expert on it, but i thought i'd throw that out there. Cubase/nuendo is 32 bit float right?

 

[Tesseract]

if you were using pro tools HD, it could be the 48bit engine that keeps the headroom. I'm no expert on it, but i thought i'd throw that out there. Cubase/nuendo is 32 bit float right?

Hmmm. I guess its something to do with that. Yeah it was recorded on to Pro Tools HD. What i dont understand is when its imported into different programs, i've seen different results on the master bus/summing of it . For example my bassist is editing it in Pro tools LE and that comes up as -5db or so aswell.

I've checked the settings, pan law, bit depth etc and when they're imported in and all left at 0db i get:

Pro Tools LE/HD -5db or so
Nuendo 3 Clipping around 3 or 5 db
Cubase 4 Same as Pro tools it seems...around -5db

Tried it quickly on a friends setup who has Logic 8...same result as nuendo.

Strange! Anyway i'm gonna buy Cubase 4 until i can afford to go PT again.

 

[006]

Temps: That sucks man, Studio 4 has been rock solid for me so far. I got it last year sometimes, updated to 4.5.x only a few weeks ago, all it seemed to do was change my plug-in list and fix some bugs that I didn't even have/experience myself. I'm on a G5 with 10.4.11 though, are you running PC or Mac? Have you hit up the Cubase forums at all? If so, no luck with any suggestions there? It's just odd to me, I haven't had any problems myself, let alone anything I've heard other people going through.

~006

 

[Temps]

Temps: That sucks man, Studio 4 has been rock solid for me so far. I got it last year sometimes, updated to 4.5.x only a few weeks ago, all it seemed to do was change my plug-in list and fix some bugs that I didn't even have/experience myself. I'm on a G5 with 10.4.11 though, are you running PC or Mac? Have you hit up the Cubase forums at all? If so, no luck with any suggestions there? It's just odd to me, I haven't had any problems myself, let alone anything I've heard other people going through.

~006

I don't doubt the Mac version is stable but I am definitely not the only person having these problems with it on PC, the Cubase 4 Windows forum is flooded with bitching and complaints.