Official wrestling thread (for fans only)

Paul Burchell is back, and he's not a pirate anymore. He got a squash victory over Brian Kendrick last night.

I am wondering why London and Kendrick are not being pushed more? They are the most exciting tag team since The Rockers!
 
Well, I think the squash comes from the fact that Paul London has been hurt and they really don't know what to do with Kendrick. There's no cruiserweight division on Raw, so it seems like feeding him to bigger names is the only option. Overall though, I don't think they're the only ones hurt by moving to Raw. King Booker came in with a roar, jobbed to HHH and left the company. Bobby Lashley came over to Raw, got a huge push, got hurt and has recently been released. Mr. Kennedy seems to be doing the best of the Raw converts, but thanks to an injury and a suspension, he went from main event contender on Smackdown to consistently mid-carder on Raw and hasn't even gotten an Intercontinental Title match. And then there's Londrick, who I think were going to get a big push, but it seems that push was given to the undeserving Cody Rhodes and the deserving but pointless Hardcore Holly. Rhodes doesn't deserve a title and Holly doesn't need one. Now it seems like the entire tag team division of Londrick, Cade & Murdoch and the Highlanders have all been set aside to build up Carlito & Santino. I'm sorry, but interesting tag team wrestling went out the window with the creation of a second set of Tag Titles and the end of the Hardys, Dudleys and Edge & Christian feud. I think ONE Tag Titles is more than enough when you have this number of unpushed and uninteresting teams going at it.

Also, they seem to be pushing Jeff Hardy to the moon, but honestly I never found him to be a believable World Champion and his loss at Royal Rumble cemented that the WWE sees the same thing. When HBK, Stone Cold and even Cena became World Champs, the time seemed right, the time just never seems right for Hardy and I don't think it ever will. He's over with most of the crowd, but all I see is another guy who's potential is being wasted in ho-hum, same old sh*t matches. He has yet to have that career-defining singles match that will propel him to the next level and if he can't have that in matches with guys like HHH, HBK and the admittedly terrible Randy Orton, he shouldn't be on top.
 
I have followed the fortunes of the Hardy brothers since their days as high flying jobbers who feuded with Too Much (better known as Too Cool) on a regular basis. It seems that Matt is the more charismatic character of the two, with the whole Mattitude thing and his feud with Edge. Jeff was always the more daring of the two in the ring, as Matt's style is more conservative. I have always enjoyed Jeff's in ring work and think to myself "why haven't they started pushing him sooner?" He owned Randy Orton in their match at the Rumble and only lost when the RKO was delivered. The promotion needs another high-flying superstar they can push to the top with HBK on the decline and Jericho stuck in a feud with JBL.

As for Randy Orton, I honestly do not know what the criticism is of him. Sure, I know backstage he can be a jerk-off, but in the ring he is pretty solid. Whenever he talks I want to throw a brick through my tv and hope it hits him...he pisses me off that much as a heel. He is good at what he does. Surely Ric Flair and HHH saw something in him when they agreed to do the Evolution thing. Old man that I am, I remember when I would see his dad Cowboy Bob "Ace" Orton in the ring.

Cody Rhodes? I like him. He's not bad at all. As an old time fan like myself you like to see the bloodlines of legends continue.

What the promotion needs to do is work overtime to get some new blood in! I am amazed why they have not signed any new talent lately. Have the indies stopped running shows? Has Vinny forgotten to send agents out to the armories and bingo halls looking for new talent?

I'm not a huge fan of many of the Divas, but Beth Phoenix is the best women's wrestler I have seen since Mickie James. Beth WRESTLED in high school and won championships! We need more women with athletic ability and less bimbos with boots on like Candace and Ashley. I enjoyed seeing Beth break Candace in half! Beth also likes metal so that makes her cool!
 
I have followed the fortunes of the Hardy brothers since their days as high flying jobbers who feuded with Too Much (better known as Too Cool) on a regular basis. It seems that Matt is the more charismatic character of the two, with the whole Mattitude thing and his feud with Edge. Jeff was always the more daring of the two in the ring, as Matt's style is more conservative. I have always enjoyed Jeff's in ring work and think to myself "why haven't they started pushing him sooner?" He owned Randy Orton in their match at the Rumble and only lost when the RKO was delivered. The promotion needs another high-flying superstar they can push to the top with HBK on the decline and Jericho stuck in a feud with JBL.
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Another amen on that one.
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Then again, as far as the "high-flying superstar" goes, I think they've given that to Rey Mysterio (not that it isn't deserved).

As for Randy Orton, I honestly do not know what the criticism is of him. Sure, I know backstage he can be a jerk-off, but in the ring he is pretty solid. Whenever he talks I want to throw a brick through my tv and hope it hits him...he pisses me off that much as a heel. He is good at what he does. Surely Ric Flair and HHH saw something in him when they agreed to do the Evolution thing. Old man that I am, I remember when I would see his dad Cowboy Bob "Ace" Orton in the ring.
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I guess *not* being a fan of Orton is like *being* a fan of Dream Theater---if you're not (a fan of Orton), you can't explain to others quite why, it's just something that you know. And if you are (a fan of Orton), you'll never "get" why the rest of us don't no matter how we try to convince you.
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Cody Rhodes? I like him. He's not bad at all. As an old time fan like myself you like to see the bloodlines of legends continue.
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Have I told either of you guys about my run-in with Cody's dad in the hall one of the last times I went to wrestling?

What the promotion needs to do is work overtime to get some new blood in! I am amazed why they have not signed any new talent lately. Have the indies stopped running shows? Has Vinny forgotten to send agents out to the armories and bingo halls looking for new talent?
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I hear that.

I'm not a huge fan of many of the Divas, but Beth Phoenix is the best women's wrestler I have seen since Mickie James. Beth WRESTLED in high school and won championships! We need more women with athletic ability and less bimbos with boots on like Candace and Ashley. I enjoyed seeing Beth break Candace in half! Beth also likes metal so that makes her cool!
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This is actually one area where the WWE definitely does not hold my interest. The TNA women's division, however, is another matter. Then again, no one could ever top the diva formerly known as Ivory, in my book. I was watching her from her GLOW days and she'll always be my favorite female wrestler.
 
Snowy Owl said:
What the promotion needs to do is work overtime to get some new blood in! I am amazed why they have not signed any new talent lately. Have the indies stopped running shows? Has Vinny forgotten to send agents out to the armories and bingo halls looking for new talent?
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Well, I think the big problem there is that WWE's currently restructuring their developmental system. They recently cut ties with OVW, who has been WWE's developmental territory for years and are now building up Florida Championship Wrestling as their main training territory, and I'm sure some talent was lost and other talent was put on hold in that whole move. I think it might be a good short while until a new talent takes off, at least until after Wrestlemania, afterall, guys like Orton, Brock Lesnar, JBL (Well, the JBL character), Goldberg and Umaga all got their WWE start right after Wrestlemania.


PS: I can explain why people don't like Randy Orton, he's not a very good ring worker, he never makes a match look believable, whether he's selling or giving moves. He just looks kinda lazy in the ring and his moveset isn't very diverse at all, he's a standard been-there, done-that heel brawler, no where near the talent level of the other heels in the company like Edge, MVP, John Morrison, Umaga or Kennedy. Next, his mic work is pretty abysmal. He can't say three words together without having to take a pause, which makes him look stupid because it looks like he needs to stop and think before every phrase he says, like he's going over his lines in his head before he says them. Whether it's scripted that way or he just delivers it that way, it makes his every promo a joke. Finally, his lazy in-ring work has never gotten him over as a credible heel and his crappy mic work can't get him over as a face, how the guy sells a T-shirt still amazes me. He's someone who fires on all the WRONG cylinders, but gets a push anyway, whether it's HHH, Flair or his Daddy, someone has to be pulling strings for him behind the scenes. I think he's just a few months and some failed feuds away from X-Pac heat. What makes this all a shame is that Orton's had the path of gold laid before him and the hand of opportunity pushing him since the day he started in the company and hasn't had what I would consider a single classic match outside of getting his ass handed to him by Mick Foley almost four years ago. Whether it be due to a lack of talent or motivation he hasn't taken any advantage of all that was given to him and just seems to be comfortably sailing on his family legacy. He's been a champion since October and has beaten real living legends like HHH and Shawn Michaels on path, and I STILL don't buy him as a credible champion because he hasn't shown me anything in that time that he deserves to hold that title besides the fact Cena was hurt. Well, that should all come to an end very soon.

I don't dislike Orton because he has heel heat, I dislike Orton for the same reason I dislike guys like Batista now or Goldberg back in WCW. A whole lot a push from the company and a whole little effort from the performer.
 
The way this post will come off may make me look like a Randy Orton mark (which I am not, I just think he is a good heel.) so read carefully.

Actually, Randy Orton did beat HHH and HBK since winning the title (albeit controversially). Also, remember that he did beat HHH to win the World Championship and which caused his ouster from Evolution (correct me if I am wrong).

Also, heels move sets are usually very limited. They usually just beat down on people and get heat for brutal tactics. Sure, there have been exceptions like Angle, but most heels are brawlers.

But I must give you credit for being an admirer of the work of guys like John Hennigan (Johnny Nitro, John Morrison). I think he is an up and comer and I am becoming a fan of his gimmick.
 
So I'm watching Raw and they show this Ric Flair tribute video, which is OK, but it just reminded me of the greatest Ric Flair video I've ever seen. WWE should be showing this instead of ANY OTHER Ric Flair video, WHOO!!

[ame]http://youtube.com/watch?v=_1LcJ6N9vwo[/ame]
 
Looking at these vids brought tears to my eyes. I remember as a kid watching Championship Wrestling from Florida on Channel 47 (Yes, it was in English. Ch. 47 had English-language programming after the late news back in the day), and one night the Nature Boy took on a kid named Barry Windham in a "non-title" match. With the legendary Gordon Solie, may he rest in peace, doing the call, Windham shocked the world by pinning Flair. Well, the ol Nature Boy promptly punched Windham all over the CWF set and threw him into Solie, knocking out Gordo cold.

Sadly, as much as we give the McMahons credit for building up WWE, the WWE has become stale. My wife worships Batista. Why? Who knows? He's is Filipino, so that is a factor. As far as selling matches, very few could do that nowadays. I watch the old CWF and LA Area (With Chavo Guerrero Sr., Tom Pritchard, and the Twin Devils) wrestling with awe. With Eddie Graham and John Tolos promoting those matches, even to this day you could swear the fighting was for real. Kevin Sullivan was so evil in his actions, he made Ihsahn look like a Christ-follower. Rufus R. Jones was such a seller in the ring, could sell Black Power to the Klan, and he was a JOBBER. Tells you the caliber of Wrestler they had back in the '70's and 80's.

And, yes, I saw the match when Rocky Johnson and Tony Atlas won the belts. Great match from end-to-end. Even after Captain Lou Albano drilled Afa(The Samoans) with a chair! Head broke straight through! Oh, BTW, Albano grabbed the wrong chair, and the wood went all over the place. Afa nearly killed Albano afterwards! :D
 
I'll be one of the first ones to say that wrestling was more fun and entertaining years back than it is now. Of course, being in the northeast as a kid in the late 80's/early 90's, all we had was Vince McMahon and the WWF. So WWE's rewritten history of wrestling is the only history I really know. As a kid, I was a fan of Hulk Hogan-onwards.

Anyway, I obviously can't say I'm no longer a fan. Actually, one week from now I'll be in Disney World in Orlando, having just watched Wrestlemania XXIV live a few days ago and I can't wait to be there. And this is my way of segwaying into my predictions/preferences for Wrestlemania:

MitB – Jericho vs. Kennedy vs. Benjamin vs. Carlito vs. MVP vs. Punk vs. Morrison

I don't mind telling you that my favorite 4 current wrestlers are in this match, those being Chris Jericho, MVP, CM Punk and, of course, Mr Kennedy. Now, I would love to vote with my heart and hope that Mr Kennedy takes away the win, thus possibly having 2 matches in one night by then challenging the champ later that night... of course, I don't expect in the least that Kennedy will walk away from Wrestlemania the champ, but that would be pretty sweet for me.

No, my first pick in this match WOULD have been Jeff Hardy... but, y'know, he has a thing for the crystal meth from what I understand. Now, I look at these guys and the ony one I see without a potential storyline after Wrestlemania is CM Punk. He's arguably the most over face in the match, even more than Jericho. Punk has done about all he can on ECW, he's feuded with everyone worth feuding with in ECW, and I think winning MITB would be a great way to get him off of that dead-end ECW and on to Raw or Smackdown by challenging a heel champ from one of the other shows. Carlito and Benjamin really aren't important enough to win this, I can see Jericho feuding well with Kennedy or MVP from this match and Morrison has his tag team career. Punk has the most to gain here and needs a new storyine.

Bunnymania – Who gives a sh*t?

ECW Battle Royal – Let’s hear it for Big Daddy V!! But seriously, unless RVD makes some huge return, I couldn’t care less, I’m expecting maybe a couple of surprise entrants, but nothing too surprising. Khali, Henry, Kane, Hardcore Holly... meh... I really don't care unless someone like Kofi Kingston won, and Kofi vs. Chavo would be a sweet match.

Shawn Michaels vs. Ric Flair – No disrespect to Ric Flair, as proved on Raw lst night, his mic skills are still top notch. He was AWESOME in his promo w/ HBK last night. All that being said... I hope Shawn Michaels wins. I think it would be more than appropriate for Flair to wrestle his last match as he's being inducted into the Hall of Fame. I also think this is a way to have someone beat Flair and still have Flair come out like a champ. This is the perfect time, place and opponent for Flair to end his career on, and Shawn can take care of the task and allow both men to walk out with their pride. I think Flair winning this match will only make the match when he finally does lose seem less important than losing this one. Whether you like it or not, an HBK win is the right call. Whoo.

Batista vs. Umaga – I’m actually expecting this match to be pretty awesome, mostly because Umaga IS awesome, and Batista is at least big and strong enough to do some pretty cool moves to Umaga. I don't expect this to be an all time classic or even the best match of the show, but I do expect some incredible high spots and intense moments as these two 'animals' collide. All that being said, I am not a Batista fan, but I expect Batista to win. Poor Umaga... jobber to the stars.

JBL vs. Finlay – The heat for this match took of so incredibly huge when JBL whooped Hornswoggle in the cage. I was so hyped for this match at the time and couldn't wait for this all out brawl. However, things have slowed down in the last few weeks. Mostly because the two haven't even been in the same arena until last night, and even then their brawl was kind of weak. This WAS my most anticipated match when it was first announced, but now I'm afraid it's going to be a huge disappointment. All that being said, I'd be shocked if Finlay didn't win it though, with some Hornswoggling assistance.

Undertaker vs. Edge – Yeah, not that I don’t respect the Undertaker and his streak and all that, but I’d love to see Edge win this match. I mean, there are strong arguments for both parties to win. If Undertaker wins, sure, it's just ANOTHER World title reign for the Undertaker, but his Wrestlemania streak remains in tact, which is more important than any wrestling championship nowadays. On the other hand, Edge would gain untold credibility and go down not just one of the biggest bad guys of this generation, but one of the most credible, hated bad guys of all time if he wins this match, especially if he wins it by cheating ;). I predict Undertaker for the sake of saving his streak, but I hope Edge wins and secures his place in wrestling history. Edge pinning Undertaker would be one of the biggest moments in wrestling history. I didn't think Batista was the right man to do it last year, but Edge is.

Big Show vs Floyd Mayweather – Yeah, like most of the wrestling audience, I’m tired of Mayweather and expect this most likely 10-15 minute match to be average at best. With Mayweather getting so many boos, I could actually see them putting Big Show over him, despite how much they're paying him. Then again, when we look at the history of Celebrities in matches (Like LT), usually the wrestlers come out on the losing end, whether they should or not. I'm calling Mayweather, but I'm not really happy about it.


HHH vs. Cena vs. Orton – There is only one King of Kings. I'm going to say this straight out, I haven't been happy with the WWE Title situation since Cena won it at Unforgiven 2006 and if Orton drops it to Cena, it will just prove that I was right in saying that Orton was just a placeholder champion until Cena was ready to come back. Cena may be over with the kids and the ladies, but the overwhelming boos from everybody else compromises his credibility as the company's top face every week. At least those who don't like HHH don't actively boo him. Then, there's Randy Orton. I've said my mind on Orton and it hasn't changed a bit. Edge is a better heel than he is as far as mic skills and wrestling. Orton wouldn't be World Champ and probably wouldn't even have a job in WWE still if it wasn't for his daddy and the support of people like HHH. Now, speaking of HHH, it's been 3 years since The Game has had a real title reign. I don't count that 2 hours as champ at No Mercy '07. HHH is a reliable World Champ, he is incredibly over as a face and I think could be incredibly over as a heel if he want to be too. He consistently still has good matches and can work out a great feud with anyone. In the past few years, HHH as put over just about everyone from Cena to Batista to Orton to Jeff Hardy and I thnk it's time for him to get the title reign he has deserved. Granted, there are others that deserve that World Champ position who haven't gotten it, like Shawn Michaels, but Triple H has a better reaction and greater legacy than Cena or Orton and I think HHH in the consistent main event spot again with a new lineup of potential challengers like Jericho, Kennedy, JBL, Punk, MVP, Hardy, Edge and Cena (HHH never DEFENDED against Cena), there's only one man in the WWE right now who can restore credibility and freshness to the Main Event scene, it's the King of Kings. And honestly, who wouldn't love to see HHH vs. HBK for the WWE Championship one last time?

I can only hope that I walk out of the Citrus Bowl as satisfied this Sunday after watching HHH walk out with the WWE title as I did watching Chris Benoit (At the time) walk away with the World Title in Madison Square Garden when I was at WMXX. I've been very disappointed in the main events at the last 3 Wrestlemanias (Batista over HHH, Cena over HHH, Mysterio over Angle and Cena over HBK). I'm hoping all those disappointments come to an end in Orlando.

Finally, if anyone but HHH wins that match, I’m going to walk into Epcot and bare knuckle box with the first Mickey I see, claiming he’s a Cena fan. He can't see me.
 
Troggy,

Are you telling me that you never watched WCCW and Jim Cornette's Smoky Mountain Wresting on cable? There was plenty of good programs other than WWF in the lae 80's/90's. Man, there was some great stuff. The problem with WWE today is that Stephanie is running Creative. She has ZERO wrestling people around her. Hell, she got rid of Paul Heyman. What does that tell you?
 
I have a question...

Who did Chavo Guerrero piss off to lose his ECW title in 8 seconds?

Also, take it to the bank...Your next RAW Tag Team champs are London and Kendrick.

Ray gets major points for mentioning the old school. :headbang:
 
Snowy Owl said:
Ray gets major points for mentioning the old school. :headbang:
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Thanks Owl, I just wish for one night we could go back to the "old school". I'd love to see Rick Martel defend the AWA strap vs WWWF Champ Bob Backlund. Or the Freebirds vs The Von Erichs, Rock n' Roll Express vs The Road Warriors, Larry Zbyszko vs Bruno, I can go on and on.

Those were the days.
 
Hey bud, I love watching those DVD's I got about the history of the AWA and WCCW down in Texas. Great to see the old school in action, especially a young Shawn Michaels and Marty Janetty as the Midnight Rockers.

Ricky Martel was a great wrestler back in his day. He was a good AWA champion but his career was damaged by his submission loss to Stan Hansen. Most fans view a champ who loses by submission unfavorably when he is a babyface, especially back then when kayfabe was still protected somewhat.

Ah yes, Bobby Backlund was the WWF champ for a long time. I'll never forget when he lost to Iron Sheik at MSG when Arnold Skaaland threw in the towel. Now, I will never have to forget because the match is on a DVD that I have. :)

If the WWE would release more DVD's of old matches in the WWF, the AWA, the WCCW, the NWA, Florida Championship Wrestling or Georgia Championship Wrestling, I would be a happy camper.
 
This storyline involving Vicki Guerrero is on of the reasons I stopped watching WWE. This is SOOOOOOOO stupid and insulting to fans like myself. They need to put Stephanie McMahon against the wall and shoot her.
 
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