"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."

[Black Winter Day]

Yes. The presence of terrorism is not pre-given. It has to come from somewhere for some reason. BUT... What sort of governmental acts make terrorism "understandable"? And what about terrorism that stems from ideological differences (i.e. Israelis vs. Muslims)? Are they "making themselves heard"? Or many Islamic fundamentalists who want to see EVERY OTHER religion on Earth wiped out? What about Joshua's Jews in the Old Testament, taking over Canaan and slaughtering the heathens? They're seen as heroes. Same thing when my country firebombs the shit out of toothbrush factories in the Middle East. Terrorism is only part of a larger heiarchy or violence.

 

[J.]

freedom fighter = violence against oppressors
terrorist = violence against oppressors INCLUDING innocents

So true. Attacking innocents is cowardly.

 

[Erik]

And what about terrorism that stems from ideological differences (i.e. Israelis vs. Muslims)? Are they "making themselves heard"?

They're also fighting over lands that both sides consider theirs. That's hardly "ideological," is it?

 

[Black Winter Day]

So you don't consider either to necessarily be non-governmental then.

I agree with Erik on this. I don't approve of killing innocents, but small groups have no chance against a military. Besides, one goal of these groups is to get their message heard. How does one make an effect if you walk up to a military base with a few rocks in your hands and get runover by a tank that didn't even see you?

So what exactly is your point? It seems to me that we are merely discussing two-sided definitions. My point is: killing of innocents is NEVER justified, whether you are an oppressive government or a jackass who hijacks a fucking elementary school.

 

[Black Winter Day]

They're also fighting over lands that both sides consider theirs. That's hardly "ideological," is it?

And why do they consider it theirs?

 

[NAD]

So what exactly is your point? It seems to me that we are merely discussing two-sided definitions. My point is: killing of innocents is NEVER justified, whether you are an oppressive government or a jackass who hijacks a fucking elementary school.

I think I'm more saying "what do you expect?" rather than "killing women and children is fine."

I don't think killing anyone is justified, ever. There are circumstances where it is more acceptable yes, but never okay. *thinks back to genocide thread... *

 

[Black Winter Day]

Anathema - "Shroud of Frost"

 

[Erik]

And why do they consider it theirs?

Not exactly IDEOLOGY. "We had this land first therefore it is ours" "no we have our religious stuff on it so it's ours" "no yuo" is not exactly what I would call purely ideological reasons. I mean sure, you can put pretty much any conflict in the history of mankind down to ideology on some level but...

 

[Black Winter Day]

So you think that they would live in the same general area, with their own lands, and be at peace with one another? Look at Ireland...

 

[Erik]

I never ever said that. I don't have fucking solutions, if I did I would have the Nobel Peace Prize by now, I'm just saying I wouldn't put everything down to pure "ideology."

 

[Black Winter Day]

So is it an ideological thing or isn't it???


(Okay, this has gone on long enough. Time to start drinking.)

 

[Black Winter Day]

I never ever said that. I don't have fucking solutions, if I did I would have the Nobel Peace Prize by now, I'm just saying I wouldn't put everything down to pure "ideology."

Stop editing your posts.

I never ever said that. <--- is what you said. Everything after that is disregarded.

 

[Erik]

Okay, this has gone on long enough. Time to start drinking.

 

[Black Winter Day]

Good idea.

 

[Erik]

Except I have nothing to drink, and no money.

 

[NAD]

Except I have nothing to drink, and no money.

 

[Erik]

The concept of "malt liquor" has been explained to me by Americans before, and it seems FUCKING GROSS. It doesn't exist in Sweden, at all.

 

[Sgt. Baker]

REAL men kill terrorists AND innocents. Real men also drink malt liquor. Giant men, with giant cocks!

 

[NAD]

...

Anyhow, malt liquor is seriously terrible, but VERY cheap and will get you drunk. It makes even bad bad American beer (like Pabst) taste rather appetizing. It's generally advertised toward poor black people and bums, which makes it funny enough to buy a bottle about once every 2 years. Ironically the taste takes about that long to wash out as well.

 

[Ayeka]

Malt liqour? :erm:

I associate the word "malt" with "vinegar"...