Opeth's Damnation (particularly Ending Credits)

[Steven Otto]

Lately I'm really enjoying this album of Opeth and I really like to gain a better insight into this superb recording. The album is recorded and mixed/mastered by Steven Wilson of Porcupine Tree.

So what's a better way investigating a record then making a cover of a song. I decided to cover 'Ending Credits' because it's my favorite and 'easiest' song. My goal is to come as close to the original song. Of course I know can't even come close, but I'll try my best.

A few things I already observed from listening to the song:

• The lead guitar is very mellow. The upper overtones are really present and basicly makes the signature singing lead tone. I'm having a hard time explaining but I hope you get what I mean . Neck pickup all the way.
• I need to back-up the mellotron with a string section to give it a smooth touch.
• The drums will be very hard to program. I got a midi file for the basis, but there is a lot of cool stuff going on on the hi-hat which I need to make as real as possible. The kick of the drums is low in the mix. The snare barely has any ring and is a snappy, small sized snare.
• Acoustic guitar is doubled: left and right. It barely has any body, but much mids and high-mid.
• Fingerstyle bass guitar. The playing will be the hardest part for me.

My plan on recording the shit:
Lead: Charvel 375 (DiMarzio fast rail in neck) -> Blackstar HT5 (British mode) -> V30 Cab -> SM57 and Studio Projects B3 (Cond). I will blend the B3 to get the delicate sound.
Acoustic guitar: Tanglewood -> SP B3. My best bet for mic placement would be away from the soundhole and towards the 12th fret to avoid boomyness.
Bass: Squier Vintage Modified Jazz Bass -> DI -> Ampeg SVX (?)
Drums: Midi -> Superior 2.0
Mellotron: I got a nice Mellotron VST which pretty close to the original and will use EDIROL orchestra strings slightly mixed in.

Anyone got some insights or ideas? I'm really open for new ideas. Think along and tell me what YOU would do in this situation.
For this recording: To me it's more the journey that counts than the ending product and just learn more and get better.

Cheers!
Steven

 

[Ascendant]

Will you be sharing the stems/DIs/midi? I'd love to mix something like this just for practice. Anyway sounds like an interesting project, I'd imagine drums being the hardest part considering you'd have to pretty much sit there and listen and tweak hit by hit on the hat and snare. If the bass becomes too much of a challenge there's probably someone else on this forum who could nail it, or as a last resort I guess one could program it in Trilian.

 

[Steven Otto]

Thanks for the response Ascendant! I will share the stems/midi when I am confident enough of the quality level I desire.

I found some great videos of the production process on YouTube! It's actually a bonus dvd from the Lamentation show.

This (6:20)
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe8fzUEphWg&feature=related[/ame]
Made me decide going for the bridge pick-up for lead guitars instead of neck. I noticed when using the bridge pick-up, I have a longer and nicer sustain. I guess I need to experiment with mic positions to get the 'muffled' ground-notes.

I'm also glad seeing Mendez using a Fender Jazz bass, since I just bought a Squier V.M. Jazz Bass last week!

 

[DanLights]

best of luck and do keep us posted, I'd love to hear this done. May I ask what Mellotron Vst you have that sounds close to the one in this album?

PS any non-spanish speakers, don't try to learn spanish with those subtitles, they are wrong on a few parts

 

[Steven Otto]

Hey DanLights. I found two mellotron vsts. The first one is called tb_tapeworm which I didn't like that much. The second one is called Nanotron. After fiddling with the settings, I got something quit close. I blended some violin section under it, just a little bit.

Enough talking, here's a little demo.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8394538/mellotron.mp3
The vst can be found overhere. It's the second vst:
http://freemusicsoftware.org/category/free-vst/mellotron

 

[TRUIE]

What a great idea, can't wait to hear the result !

If it can help, for the Mellotron, I've got the first version of this : http://www.gforcesoftware.com/ins_mtronpro.php (the "non-pro" version).

It looks like this :

And it sounds really really good (real Mellotron's samples and there are a lot of banks). I tried a lot of freebies before, and they just can't compare to this one.
Let me know If you want to try to run midi throug it

 

[DanLights]

Thanks Steven, I´ll check that out! Oh and TRUIE, thanks for the offering, I probably will contact you soon with that

 

[TRUIE]

No problem Dan, send me a midi file and I'll send him into each tape bank if you want.

For example, I found an oooold song I did with M-Tron on it : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6120012/Studio/Masters/PERSO/ERIC_04_Interlude_Acoustique%28VTB1%29.mp3
It starts at 0'56 until the end, but it's a bit low in volume.
Mix sucks, it's a very old track (I remember the drums to be Toontrack DFHsuperior, the very first version).

 

[JeffTD]

Not sure if I agree on the neck pickup thing for those solo tones, especially considering that one in particular is the most nasally on the album and you can't even see the pickup switch on the guitar?

 

[Morgan C]

Great album. The snare drum sounds like it's 90% overheads and bottom mic, very little top mic

 

[Steven Otto]

What a great idea, can't wait to hear the result !

If it can help, for the Mellotron, I've got the first version of this : http://www.gforcesoftware.com/ins_mtronpro.php (the "non-pro" version).

It looks like this :

And it sounds really really good (real Mellotron's samples and there are a lot of banks). I tried a lot of freebies before, and they just can't compare to this one.
Let me know If you want to try to run midi throug it

I will check it out tomorrow

Not sure if I agree on the neck pickup thing for those solo tones, especially considering that one in particular is the most nasally on the album and you can't even see the pickup switch on the guitar?

Agreed. That's why I posted this:

This (6:20)
[youtube clip]
Made me decide going for the bridge pick-up for lead guitars instead of neck. I noticed when using the bridge pick-up, I have a longer and nicer sustain.

Great album. The snare drum sounds like it's 90% overheads and bottom mic, very little top mic

Great info!! That's really what I'm looking for.

 

[JeffTD]

Sorry, meant bridge pickup, not neck - on that solo he could be using the bridge pickup, but I think the vast majority of leads on that album were done with the neck pickup.

 

[szymon]

I think that's really nice idea to do that
Drums will be quite tough to program. Have you considered getting a drummer for that?


but programming this can also be fun :

 

[Steven Otto]

Today has been a good day!

I learnt a few things today:

• I was worried about my guitar not having enough sustain (20 y/o Kahler trem), but I just need to compress the fuck out of my guitar take! I yielded good results with a 4:1 compressor with a fast attack (few ms) and slow release (1600 seconds) and a moderate limiter after that. I'm happy I improved my lead tone a lot!
• Finally found accurate tabs for the bass guitar. It's going to be fun practicing the song since only play bass since 1 week!
• I noticed I really need to close mic my acoustic guitar. I found it's better to have it a few inches (just like a guitar cab) off the 12th fret instead off a metre from the guitar itself.

This thread turns out like a blog for me. Does it still belong in the Production subforum, it could be moved to avoid confussion.
@szymon: I don't really know a drummer that can record and I don't have the gear to mic up a drumset

 

[cobhc]

While we're talking about this album, can anyone tell me if the start of Weakness is a Mellotron as well? God I love the intro!

 

[Steven Otto]

I don't think it's a mellotron. A mellotron is more like a 70's wavey flap/sharp sounding string section.
In one of those 'Making of' clips I've seen Steven Wilson playing that intro of the song on a keyboard/synth. I'll look for it right away

 

[RLab]

While we're talking about this album, can anyone tell me if the start of Weakness is a Mellotron as well? God I love the intro!

I listen to this song in my bed almost every night just before I sleep... So amazing !
Damnation is a masterpiece.

 

[Steven Otto]

Found it!
It starts at 2:00


While we're at it, what is happening with that guitar at the start of this clip? Is it an Ebow?

 

[Scott Horner]

Found it!
It starts at 2:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdtRBUt8OYU

While we're at it, what is happening with that guitar at the start of this clip? Is it an Ebow?

I think it's just a crapload of reverb.

 

[Fragle]

reminds me of a podfarm preset i found some time ago....weird blend of guitar synthesizer, shitloads of verb, delay, reverse effects, swells, everything.