Opinions on rough drum mix

Ermz

Ermz

¯\(°_o)/¯
Apr 5, 2002
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Melbourne, Australia
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I'm a bit of a stranger to ask advice on a session while it's on progress, but I would really like to learn new stuff whenever possible, so here goes.

Here's the drums from a session, that we tracked in a mere 4 hours. The drum mix was done in about 5 minutes as we were packing up, as such they aren't quite what they can be. I would like some general opinions, if you guys don't mind, on how you feel they tracked.

We tried to get a bit more click out of that kick, but it wasn't to be. I personally have no idea how to get as much high end out of it as some of you guys do.

Anyhow, here goes:

http://users.tpg.com.au/afiteam/manmade-roughdrums.mp3
 
I'd absolutely dig that sound... In a vintage 70's prog rock production. :loco: It's cool really but not metal at all (of course with fx and stuff and a real mix it could be). The playing isn't great though.
 
I agree with Burny. It seems like they were going for a metal feel, but the song just wasn't tracked that way at all. The timing could have been better for sure.
 
Thanks for the views guys. Is there anything in particular you could suggest from that to track it more metal? Because they're all close mics, 2 overheads, high-passed at 600Hz, a bit of high boosts here and there. 5 minute job.
 
You have a lot of room sound. I bet you'll have to lower the OH in the mix. That sould solve a part of it. The toms have a big resonant frequency. EQ, Gate or editing will do the trick. Id' scoop the KD a bit to have a more obvious bottom and attack. The snare need some comp to be more punchy. Classic stuff.
Anyway, I think you need the other instruments to make a fair judgement and start choosing the right spot for each elements.
 
Moonlapse said:
Thanks for the views guys. Is there anything in particular you could suggest from that to track it more metal? Because they're all close mics, 2 overheads, high-passed at 600Hz, a bit of high boosts here and there. 5 minute job.
Click to expand...
try loosening the heads on the kick for more slap like we talked about in the other thread. i would tune the toms, they sound flat and dull. get a tension watch, it will save your ass and a shit load of time. it sounds as if the overhead mics could be placed closer and then go for a room mic if you want some ambience or "natural reverb". its so hard to get drums right. its all about taking the time to get the kit sounding good(which often there not even enough time or patience on the bands part to get a good sound:Smug: ). anyway, get a tension watch and borrow someones kit for a week and practice tuning to get a good sound, it all starts there. i liked the way the snare sounded though, not bad man. every time you record a kit youll get better at it, thats what i find.
 
Have you cut out all your toms etc by hand and faded them etc.... this would be a god place to start..... then scoop a bit of mid off them lower the volume of the over heads and compress them.... their is quite a lot to do to make them metal dude....

Triggering is your friend in this situation man..... get a good trigger on the snare....duplicate the snare track and have one 100 % trigger one 100% acoustic... use only as much as you need to poke it out over guitars etc

trigger the kick in the same way

toms too

Add just enough trigger to give that extra poke you need.... but for the kick use more trigger than acoustic kick (i'm asuming you want it realy clicky) and i'd gate the acoustic kick with a really fast attack... maybe leave some floor if you want

render the triggerd tracks... theirs really no point running them "live"

compress the snare a bit.... i always put too much on then back off till it sounds right (but thats just me)

eq: maybe scoop a bit of mid of out of the Overheads or use a fequecncy aware compressor on the mid range ....and eq eveything so its "a bit more metal"

...SO much to do mate but thats a good starting point i guess, hope it helps
and if you can... try running the tracks through multitrack beat detective before you do all the above. .... you can make thease tracks sound killer!

C
 
carl@laruso.com said:
Have you cut out all your toms etc by hand and faded them etc.... this would be a god place to start..... then scoop a bit of mid off them lower the volume of the over heads and compress them.... their is quite a lot to do to make them metal dude....

Triggering is your friend in this situation man..... get a good trigger on the snare....duplicate the snare track and have one 100 % trigger one 100% acoustic

trigger the kick in the same way

toms too

Add just enough trigger to give that extra poke you need.... but for the kick use more trigger than acoustic kick (i'm asuming you want it realy clicky) and i'd gate the acoustic kick with a really fast attack... maybe leave some floor if you want

render the triggerd tracks... theirs really no point running them "live"

compress the snare a bit.... i always put too much on then back off till it sounds right (but thats just me)

eq: maybe scoop a bit of mid of out of the Overheads or use a fequecncy aware compressor on the mid range ....and eq eveything so its "a bit more metal"

...SO much to do mate but thats a good starting point i guess, hope it helps
and if you can... try running the tracks through multitrack beat detective before you do all the above. .... you can make thease tracks sound killer!

C
Click to expand...
im pretty sure he knows all about triggering. i think he was looking how to track and engineer it better. correct me if im wrong moonlapse.
 
thanks pauli.

We actually had a tension watch ready, but not enough time to bust it out and use it. We only had 4 friggin hours to track the thing, so ti wasn't much. We experimented with loosening the front skin but all it did was make the kick sound more flabby. We went the other way and it just had less attack. Odd thing. I would definitely love to have the time to experiment with tuning more.

I wasn't expecting the OHs to catch that much room, especially since the room itself is really dead. We had a room mic going, just for the sake of it.

Other guys, I wasn't talking about what I can do in a mix. Believe me, I've done my share of metal mixes. I was reffering to how the sound can be achieved via tracking. pauli was the only one who addressed that. Regardless, I do appreciate your input. Believe me, I will do my share of editing and mixing on them to get them meshing in a final mix.
 
That's cool man, no harm done. I probably should've stressed more the fact that they're largely unmixed at the moment and I need suggestions on how to get them closer to 'mix ready' without actually doing any mixing, if you know what I mean.

I'm getting sort of sick of having to salvage things during mixing, which, compared to everything else, is my strong point. I would really like to become a better tracking engineer.
 
Moonlapse said:
That's cool man, no harm done. I probably should've stressed more the fact that they're largely unmixed at the moment and I need suggestions on how to get them closer to 'mix ready' without actually doing any mixing, if you know what I mean.

I'm getting sort of sick of having to salvage things during mixing, which, compared to everything else, is my strong point. I would really like to become a better tracking engineer.
Click to expand...
unfortunatley the more inexperienced you are, the more time it takes to get drums to sound great for tracking. i always tell bands it can easily take a half a day just to get the kit sounding good. this is for bands who care. bands who dont care, just get them playing fast, its gonna be all about vibe anyway.
id be curious to hear how long andy or james takes on average, for a label album, to get a kit sounding great before they hit record. how much time do they set aside for drum sounds right off the bat?
 
unsilpauly said:
unfortunatley the more inexperienced you are, the more time it takes to get drums to sound great for tracking. i always tell bands it can easily take a half a day just to get the kit sounding good. this is for bands who care. bands who dont care, just get them playing fast, its gonna be all about vibe anyway.
id be curious to hear how long andy or james takes on average, for a label album, to get a kit sounding great before they hit record. how much time do they set aside for drum sounds right off the bat?
Click to expand...

Well sadly the problem isn't how much they set aside, nor how much we set aside. This was recorded in one of those audio schools, under their conditions. So we were allocated 4 hours for the session. That, for me, is nothing. By the time we'd simply set it up in the right place and mic'ed the kit most of the time was eaten up.

So as a starting point, you still think the toms should've been tuned up a bit tighter, and the batter head of the kick a bit looser to get a bit more slap going?

I forgot that I mixed the Front of Kick mic into that, so that sort of killed the scooped sound of the inside kick. I'm thinking in the end I'll probably low pass the FoK really drastically and just use the big low-end boost it gives.

@carl: Thanks dude, the heads were relatively new actually. Emperors, I think. I think our biggest issue may have been the tuning (or lack thereof!).

I'll keep the auralex thing in mind. I'd heard of people using it on here too, but I've never really had too many issues with spill, so it's not really been necessary I guess.
 
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