Orchestral Metal

colynomial

colynomial

Member
Jan 15, 2008
342
17
18
Toronto
wearetulip.com
Just demo'd a few tracks for my band... Everything is sampled except for guitars/and vox of course (even the bass)...

Anybody work with orchestral stuff before and have pointers on how to get that Hollywood "wall of sound" style like, say, Hanz Zimmer? I know that's not a realistic expectation with samples...

I'm running EWQLSO Gold and Colossus...

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/818500/More%20Than%20Conquerors%20%28New%20Mix%20Minus.mp3
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/818500/A_Faithful_Few_%28New_Mix%29.mp3

Comments and criticisms welcome!

Update: Just the orchestral parts by themselves...

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/818500/More%20Than%20Conquerors%20%28Orchestra%20Only%29.mp3
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/818500/A%20Faithful%20Few%20%28Orchestra%20Only%29.mp3
 
colynomial said:
Just demo'd a few tracks for my band... Everything is sampled except for guitars/and vox of course (even the bass)...

Anybody work with orchestral stuff before and have pointers on how to get that Hollywood "wall of sound" style like, say, Hanz Zimmer? I know that's not a realistic expectation with samples...

I'm running EWQLSO Gold and Colossus...

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/818500/More_Than_Conquerors_%28New_Mix%29.mp3
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/818500/A_Faithful_Few_%28New_Mix%29.mp3


Comments and criticisms welcome!
Click to expand...

to be honest with you, the biggest trick to getting that crazy "movie" orchestra sound is what you write

but you'll need good sounds to do it with, and honestly if you have EWQLSO then you've got what it takes

imagine the orchestra creation process as a recording within its self, you'll need lots of "automation" (programming, velocity, sustain, expression) modifications to all the material to make it sound more "hollywood" / realistic

and PS. you said criticism was welcome, and i just wanted to say i didnt like the singing on this at all!
 
Did you mean just the melodic singing or the screaming or both?

I guess part of the problem is that I'm writing the "orchestral" parts from a pretty limited understanding of what should be playing what...

For instance, if I come up with some melody part for the brass section, should I be doubling it up between trombones and french horns, should I do 3 or 4 harmony parts with a single instrument or spread the harmonies out with different instruments...

Thanks for the insight!

Maybe I should post just the orchestra by itself huh?
 
colynomial said:
Did you mean just the melodic singing or the screaming or both?

I guess part of the problem is that I'm writing the "orchestral" parts from a pretty limited understanding of what should be playing what...

For instance, if I come up with some melody part for the brass section, should I be doubling it up between trombones and french horns, should I do 3 or 4 harmony parts with a single instrument or spread the harmonies out with different instruments...

Thanks for the insight!

Maybe I should post just the orchestra by itself huh?
Click to expand...


yeah thats the thing, you gotta know what to do and when, and its just comes with experience / knowledge. there's a lot to it. you could do wild stuff, but if you do proper things (which is really just defined by what people have done with orchestra stuff, before you) then it will sound "that way"... make sense? so study up on some orchestra shit!

and about the singing, it was the voice. sounded like someone singing who didnt belong as the singer in a band. kinda like, when you're in the car and your friend just starts whaling that chorus and you're thinking "just stop... you should not be singing".....

sorry, not trying to be harsh!
 
Hahaha... Thanks guys, I understand about the singing...

Maybe it's not so much the orchestra as it is the rest of the instruments that are ruining the vibe- the guitar tone is pretty lack luster and the drums sound really small... Muddy mix overall I guess...

Ahh well, just demos, I'll know better now for the "real" recordings!
 
Actually, I think the orchestra sounds a bit "hidden", you know, like behind a pillow or something, it needs to come up front. The ambience on the samples may be too dark for the song. I liked the song BTW ;-)
 
I actually dig the singing a bit. I had to get used to it but it's by far not horrible in my opinion.

Give us some info on what you recorded the guitars/drums/vocals with. I'm pretty curious as the mix sounds pretty good.
 
Thanks guys! I do agree with the orchestration being a bit hidden... I wonder if I were to just push the highs a bit on the whole orchestral 2-mix if that would make much difference?

As for the mix, guitars were just done with a Les Paul knock-off stocked with Seymour-Duncan Invader pickups. I tracked direct then reamped through a Crate BV120 head and Crate 4x12 cab stocked with V30 Celestions (they used to come this way back in the day). Mic'd with a Shure SM57. I find the guitar tone pretty lackluster but it was the best I had to work with at the time.

Drums are all programmed and taken from the "Studio Set" in the EW Colossus library and then replaced with the Sneap samples!

Vocals were done with a Shure SM58, again, the best I had to work with at the time- sufficient for a demo I think. I should say all screaming is triple tracked. I don't know if this is a good way to go about doing things, any comments? Seems heavier to me but I wonder if you sacrifice some clairty...

All other instruments (including bass) were taken from either the Colossus library or the EWQL Symphonic Orchestra library.

Oh, and also, I threw an L3 Multimaximizer on the master. Used the preset "24-bit Hot and Crunchy"- it seemed to really help widen the stereo field and clean out some of the mud. Would anyone recommend doing this if you were having your audio mastered by someone else? I'm guessing it probably wouldn't provide the engineer with much room to work with...

The band is going to be tracking a full length album in August so any suggestions you guys have will hopefully help to make the full length album that much better!
 
Sounds really good, maybe just turn down the level on the clean vocals.
 
Actually it sounds really cool to these ears!! The screamy vocals are a little bit loud in the mix for my tastes, and the clean ones are also a little loud. The production makes the clean vocals sound a bit nasal so maybe some EQ could fix that?

Sounds like a great overall production though and I love the orchestration (I want to get some of that into my songs!).
 
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