Orphaned Land... strange news...

[lizard]

did Steve Wilson bully them into that new direction, simply by being the overbearing producer?

as a long time PT fan, I hardly see Wilson as overbearing and tyrannical. In fact his approach with PT has always been to allow his band mates to play as they wish. Rather, it seems more the case that certain musicians appreciate the sound he gets and so they say, here we are, mold us, we are clay in your hands.

I'm constantly bemused by the cadre of opethites who view Wilson alternately with admiration and/or scorn. Mostly it has to do with whether or not they respect a musician's right to curiosity and change.

 

[lizard]

I reject the theory that SW was the cause of Opeth's downfall, unless you blame Akerfeldt for taking his respect for him too far.

exactly. Again, Wilson is held in very high esteem and he does a myriad of projects, beyond PT...

I do have some doubts about whether his production style will interfere with OL's atmosphere.

this is the litmus test. I respect the hell out of Wilson and so will give him the benefit of the doubt, this is certainly a mutual admiration society between SW and OL, so....

 

[lizard]

i'm fine with it as long as they don't use that goddamn phone voice, yeesh

that wouldn't really fit, would it

 

[General Zod]

Everybody seems to be going nuts for this partnership, but I'm probably the only one really wary of the situation. The fact is, we have to look at what happened to OPETH.

Nope. When I first heard the news, over in the ProgPower forum, I noted that I was skeptical.

It would be unfair (at this time) to blame Wilson for Opeth's downfall. It may also be unfair to blame Wilson for the fact that similarities developed between Wilson's and Opeth's music when he took the helm. However, given that the most notable band to Wilson's production credit is Opeth, and that Opeth changed for the worse upon his arrival, you'll have to forgive my hestitation if I choose not to jump up and down in excitement at this news.

Zod

 

[Dev]

Wilson + Metal does not compute. Polished productions my ass.

 

[JayKeeley]

So what some of you are TRULY saying is that Wilson had no influence over Opeth's change in style , and it was all Akerfeldt, his admiration for SW and nothing else. Remind me, are we still on planet Earth?

Let's just look at it this way: if the next Orphaned Land album begins to sound even remotely like Porcupine Tree, and likewise becomes inferior to their previous output, then perhaps we'll start to see a pattern develop.... just sayin'.

Just curious but who here would actually PREFER for SW to continue producing Opeth albums? Conversely, who here would like to see them use someone else instead (like Dan Swano)?

 

[JayKeeley]

It would be unfair (at this time) to blame Wilson for Opeth's downfall.

"At this time"? You mean, you're waiting for MORE evidence? Don't tell me the jury is still out.

It may also be unfair to blame Wilson for the fact that similarities developed between Wilson's and Opeth's music when he took the helm.

Again though, we're not talking about 1 album here. We're talking about a whole sequence of releases. Why not recognize that a pattern has developed?

given that the most notable band to Wilson's production credit is Opeth, and that Opeth changed for the worse upon his arrival, you'll have to forgive my hestitation if I choose not to jump up and down in excitement at this news.

There you go. No need to be so 'diplomatic'.

 

[En Vind Av Sorg]

Opeth has sounded the same to me since Still Life essentially. I know thats a vast oversimplification, but to me they've been following the same pattern of song structure and style for a good while. Ghost Reveries actually seemed a bit different to me, but overall I still didnt really like the album. I also think I'm alone in my statement that Damnation is the best thing they've done since Still Life, most people hated it. Opeth should cut the metal out of there sound and just continue with the psudeo-camel, 70's prog rip off songs.

 

[Dev]

I think it's Akerfeldt that is to 'blame' in the end. He said he was responsible for anything and if we don't like the music well "blame" him. But then again, strange coincidence..

What if Steven Wilson had produced Still Life?

 

[General Zod]

"At this time"? You mean, you're waiting for MORE evidence?

Yes. There are plenty of folks who think Opeth had been on a steady decline prior to the release of "Blackwater Park".

Again though, we're not talking about 1 album here. We're talking about a whole sequence of releases. Why not recognize that a pattern has developed?

Because, you can make the arguement that "Deliverance" is their heaviest disc to date and "Ghost Reveries", without Wilson, their worst.

There you go. No need to be so 'diplomatic'.

LOL. Not being diplomatic, I'm just curious to see how his presence impacts this CD.

Zod

 

[JayKeeley]

Because, you can make the arguement that "Deliverance" is their heaviest disc to date and "Ghost Reveries", without Wilson, their worst.

Wait -- Steve Wilson had no involvement in Ghost Reveries? Huh, I did not know that, but then I didn't buy the CD.

 

[Demonspell]

He was originally scheduled to produce, but GR was recorded around the time of Deadwing's release, leaving him unavailable. I'm not going to say he had no impact whatsoever on the quality of his work with Opeth, but I do think that Akerfeldt would have pursued the direction of BWP regardless of who was at controls.

 

[lizard]

A lot of these comments make it seem as if the producer has dictatorial powers: that's only true if a) the band has no vision or spine and b) the producer is a tyrant.

It's no secret mikael is enamored with Wilson but he certainly has his own vision and he has undertaken this "degradation" of opeth willingly because he sees it as artistic growth. While people who adored the first few cds cry because they miss a tree that had to grow but they wanted it to remain a sapling.

 

[General Zod]

Wait -- Steve Wilson had no involvement in Ghost Reveries? Huh, I did not know that, but then I didn't buy the CD.

Correct. Which is why I've said I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, until I've heard the new Orphaned Land.

Zod

 

[lizard]

I don't know that I've ever met a muso who was unwilling to play different stuff for fun. Musicians almost by definition are interested in new sounds, and that's what makes me laugh at all this sellout/betrayal accusations

In fact morons like glenn benton are the cowards: they're afraid of giving up their 16 year old market share for something that is really an artistic pursuit

 

[JayKeeley]

While people who adored the first few cds cry because they miss a tree that had to grow but they wanted it to remain a sapling.

Not remain a sapling, but they didn't want the tree to wilt either. Change is good -- because god knows Opeth needed a change -- but their interpretation of change is somewhat dubious.

 

[JayKeeley]

A lot of these comments make it seem as if the producer has dictatorial powers: that's only true if a) the band has no vision or spine and b) the producer is a tyrant.

I don't know enough about production but I imagine producers (typically musicians or ex-musicians themselves) 'suggest' ideas that would modify the song which itself was probably written before the band even entered the studio.

Just look at Bob Rock.

Anyway, the question is whether SW would actually IMPROVE things for Orphaned Land. Personally I just can't see what value there is in using SW based on the strength of their previous output. It's not like Orphaned Land were stuck in a rut.

Even if they were to write their songs in a vacuum, all SW would do is give the album his trademark polished production and that doesn't add any value whatsoever considering the near-perfect production values of Mabool.

So I'm therefore wary of their motives -- I just hope they're not looking for inspiration in their song writing or structuring. It took them 7 years to write Mabool, so I hope they're not trying to rush things by bringing in a hired gun.

 

[General Zod]

Anyway, the question is whether SW would actually IMPROVE things for Orphaned Land.

Now, this is an interesting question. First, I imagine it depends on your opinion of SW. Personally, I think SW's songwriting has, at times, demonstrated pure brilliance. So, now the question becomes, can a brilliant songwriter improve a band? While the answer might seem obvious, I'm not sure it's a simple question. I don't think anyone would argue that Leonard Cohen was a brilliant songwriter. But is he going to make Orphaned Land better? Probably not. I guess, in the end, SW is simply another voice in the room. And what he adds will be largely dependant on how OL filters and incorporates his suggestions.

By the way, I think Wilson did an excellent job with "Blackwater Park". The real problem is, that Opeth continued to explore that direction, rather than head into a completely new one after that release.

Zod

 

[lizard]

I've read about producers running the gamut from completely uninvolved to guys who run the whole show. I respect Wilson enough to think (based on comments he's made about even his own musicians) that he will respect what OL is and allow them their vision. now...if they completely allow their own personality to be consumed by their adoration of wilson, that's their fault.

 

[JayKeeley]

Opeth should cut the metal out of there sound and just continue with the psudeo-camel, 70's prog rip off songs.

You mean stick with the Damnation recipe, or remain consisten but remove death growls and only sing clean harmonies? Thing is, if it's the latter, then they'll probably end up a complete PT clone.

It really is remarkable just how much Akerfeldt copies the PT formula. I'll give you specific examples: take In Absentia. Look at the clean vocal lines on "Blackest Eyes". That's exactly how Akerfeldt sings.

Also, take the acoustic guitar solo on "Trains". Holy shit, that is exactly how Akerfeldt patterns his solo structures.

But to be fair, I guess you can lump all these f'ers together and say they're ripping off Pink Floyd at this point. Just look at songs like "Wedding Nails".