OT: Racism & attitudes to Arabs where you live?

Living in the NY metro area, and working in Manhattan, I see/hear little to no true racial overtones in broad view. Generally, I do think we have a rather progressive, open view towards race. However, I'm certain that prejudices exists and that they're politely kept inside.

People, generally speaking, are slow to divorce themselves totally from prejudices. My father, for example, is far from as 'open' as his sons are.

With that said, my office is a prime example of how race mingling can work. And work well. I have fellow co-workers born in Afghanistan, Iraq, Portugal, the Caribean, Germany, China, Korea, and, of course, America. And I'm certain to be omitting some. We also have a number of openly homosexuals working here. And so what? They're really no different from heterosexuals.

And, at the end of the day, we all generally get along quite well.

Ironically, the greatest disputes are amongst liberal vs consvervative, as we debate hard & heavy (ie: argue!), but these are always the most fun! My best mates here are either extremelly liberal or extremelly conservative. Ironic, that.

Anyway, every day, I walk past the WTC site (on the way to meet my wife, who was born in China) and ponder the grand fate of our mixed daughter's future. More likely than not, things will continue to get worse before they get better (overall, on the world stage). With that said, however, I do think that race relation in NY are TEN TIMES better than they were 15 years ago....when things were much hairier here. The LA riots really opened up a lot of eyes in America, as I see it. The problems we had here in NY in the 90s also shed light on the issue (police raping an immigrant with a broom-stick, etc).

All in all, I'd really have to assume that what just transpired in Australia is unlikely to occur in any of the major US cities where there is intermingling and race-mixing. But, I could be very wrong. I hope I am, at least.

As you travel up the line into upstate NY, the trend mentioned above reverses itself a bit. Friends and family I have upstate are no where near as accepting as I am, and even had a bit of a hard time with my marrying outside of my race. BUT, once they ice broke, and they got to know my wife, they became accepting of her. And, ultimately, that's the key: exposure to 'the other'. The more we know of others, the more the silly barriers break. And, we realize, we're the same. The differences are cultural...nothing more (of course, cultural differences count for a lot, I know). BUT, they can be overcome...
 
Wow it sounds like Australia is easily having the worst problems regarding racial issues with middle easterns at the moment then... I would have thought if it's this bad here then surely in the US it would possibly be worse because you are the ones who got attacked on 9-11 whereas we haven't even had a direct attack. Though as I said, I don't think these riots have much at all to do with the terrorist threats and alot more to do with gang violence. And strangely, apart from a few Vietnamese suburbs in Melbourne like Footscray & St Albans, I don't think there is really much gang violence going on at all outside of the middle eastern community.

Just an update as well on our riot situations in Sydney, more happened again last night. This time the Lebanese gangs fired shots at a Carols By Candlelight event which had children inside, and set a Uniting Church on fire.

It was funny on Monday night, about 1000 muslims gathered at their mosque to protect it in case it got attacked or destroyed. Of course, it didn't. The Australians who rallied & rioted on the beach on Sunday haven't done a thing since, they had their protest (even if it got way out of hand), brought attention to the violence that's been going on by the gangs, and that's all they wanted to do. Of course the gangs though didn't take long to head out and burn a Christian church though. It's a good thing that people are aware of what has been going on for ages now and that the police will finally be forced to act alot tougher on gangs in that area, but this has just sparked so much more violence now and the ethnic gangs are seriously out for revenge & blood at the moment.
 
Islamic fundamentalists are just as worthless and Christian fundamentalists, and frankly, both should be forcibly removed from society.
 
Touchy subject.

Trixxi, there is tension and racism towards Arabs here too. Unfortunately. Whereas other minorities (portuguese, polish, italian, etc.) don't have to suffer from racism from what I see.

I guess you saw the riots that happened last month in France, but they weren't racial riots, it's mainly a long-term frustration now exploding from a marginalized/poor part of the population. It may come like a shock for some but it was easily predictable actually, because of a fucked up urbanisation for the last 30 years. That's the key right here, terrible urbanisation. There would be WAY less racism towards Arabs if the urbanisation policies after WWII had been better and if we had done a better job at integrating immigrants before... but gouvernments sucked and still suck at that no matter what, they've never taken the time to handle the problem, letting things getting worse and worse over the years. Now we pay the price.
Fortunately guns are forbidden otherwise those riots could have been not only destructive but also deadly... and maybe they would have turned into real racial riots, who knows.

Talking about suburbs we have them in every big town here, some of them I don't really want to walk through to be honest. I used to live in a suburb but fortunately I've never seen hate riots like what you describe Trixxi... well, not yet. I can imagine how you feel about the situation.

Back on topic, yes there is a part of the population (maybe 20%? Hard to tell) who dislikes or even hates Arabic people, forgetting who helped rebuilding the country after WWII, forgetting that there are also more and more Arabs perfectly integrated in the society.
On the other hand, I have a few Arabic friends and even them aknowledge that there's also racism towards white French people in the suburbs, even if the matter is extremely taboo over here. It's a bit of the same as what Hawk was talking about for The Netherlands I guess. There's racism from both sides but you can't criticize the "anti-white" / "anti-french" racism going around otherwise you're automatically called a "racist", even though this racism is a simple fact (that I've noticed myself), not an opinion. And I'm pretty sure that this stupid taboo makes racism towards Arabs grow more and more.
Obviously blind racism just worsen things and brings more racism and violence from the other side (as Wyv' and Kitty said), seems like to me that a certain share of humans will never understand that, whatever their ethnical / religious background may be...
 
Wyvern said:
Shit! I never thought about it Sixxi, since your family name is from latin origin it doesn't hit any buttons for me (well actually it does but that's a joke I'll tell you someday :p ), then in English...Mosque, shoot me :confused: . Talk about uncorfortable coincidences, in any non-English country it'll be nothing. Life's strange.

I agree about profiling. Many of my Indian friends were "oggled" at airports after Sept.11/01, and some Latin friends too. Me being excendingly white (like in pale death body) never had the trouble, also being from a Latin America I have grew accustomed to military presence and tight security, so it never bothered me in the beginning.

That changed a lot of things. 9.11 that is, my brother worked about 5 blocks from where the planes hit in NYC, he was ona bridge, in a cab whne the first plane struck, then the next one and traffic was at a stand still. I can't imagine what that was like, chaos I'm sure...
I'm all for keeping people safe sometimes it goes too far and do people get singled out, you'd better believe it...
 
sixxswine said:
I'm all for keeping people safe sometimes it goes too far and do people get singled out, you'd better believe it...

Some days a go a Costa Rican got funny on a plane and was shot (dead) by marshalls. I hadn't followed the news much closely, it seems the guy was mentally disturbed, but are contradictory versions of what he said/done and what witnesses saw.

What pisses me most of security is the extended pre-boarding time. Use to be 1-2 h, now it's 3! I mena flying is not very nice, 2,4,8 h on a flying tin can without much to do but read, sleep or hear music. And if you add the absolutely unnecesary wait in the airport, plus the long lanes in security, well let's say that vacations it's not what it used to be, now imagine you have to fly because of work :ill:

NP: Rata Blanca - 'En Nombre De Dios?'
 
Fangface, what you described about the French riots is pretty much the same reason as here. It's definitely a result of marginalisation and more of a class riot, poor western suburbs vs privaledged eastern suburbs, and also very much a result of the Arab immigrants from after WWII not being integrated into society either.
 
Jean-Pierre said:
Islamic fundamentalists are just as worthless and Christian fundamentalists, and frankly, both should be forcibly removed from society.

Agreed!

Finally.....someone had the stones to blurt this out. A right-wing Republican fanatic is the same as a left-wing Democrat fanatic. Both are radical extremists with the same agenda: Self preservation.

Extremists on opposite ends are essentially the same person. An orthodox Christian or Jew is no different than a Satanic purest or Islamic fundamentalist. All will do whatever it takes (and sacrafice whomever) to make their case and protect their standing.
 
Not to much to speak of down here in Florida either. We just had the big Sami Al-Arian trial down here and he was found not guilty for funding terrorist groups in the middle east. He was a professor at USF collage and was fired over the whole ordeal. It was big on the news around here and I think the rest of the country. If there was some real underlying racism towards Arabs around here he would have been hung out to dry. The jurors said the govenment didn't prove it's case and let him go. He still is jailed though, and is awaiting other charges I believe?

After 9/11 there was some backlash towards the Arab community, but it subsided pretty quickly. I feel sorry for the normal non-extremist Arabs or anybody that looks arabic in this country if/when the terrorists start suicide bombing in this country (it's going to happen, it's only a matter of time). It's going to get ugly real quick.

I agree, any type of extremism is bad on any front. Why do people worry what other people worship? Who cares? How does it affect them? It only affects other people when they try to push it on somebody else. Same goes for race, sexuality. Who the hell cares? If it doesn't interfere with my quality of life, I don't care what color you are, or what you do in the bedroom. People need to worry about thier own lives and stop worrying what they think other people should be doing or what color they are. I'm not saying I don't have prejudices either, everybody has some prejudices. When somebody is a racist, is when the big problems starts.
 
SavaRon said:
I agree, any type of extremism is bad on any front. Why do people worry what other people worship? Who cares? How does it affect them? It only affects other people when they try to push it on somebody else. Same goes for race, sexuality. Who the hell cares? If it doesn't interfere with my quality of life, I don't care what color you are, or what you do in the bedroom. People need to worry about thier own lives and stop worrying what they think other people should be doing or what color they are. I'm not saying I don't have prejudices either, everybody has some prejudices. When somebody is a racist, is when the big problems starts.

Very Well Put Ronny!!!

Fucking Humaniods Take ourselves waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to serious ... do ya think Chimps Bomb Arangatangs because they are Orange? hahaha I am ashamed to be human almost everyday
 
JonnyD said:
do ya think Chimps Bomb Arangatangs because they are Orange?
Actually they do! I just saw it on an episode of the 70s tv series adaption of Planet of the Apes on Sci-Fi channel. Actually, now that I think of it, the chimps weren't bombing the orangutans because they were orange, but because they were going to kill the two hunky astronauts.

Seriously though, this has been an interesting topic to read. I guess we're all agreed that extremists are the root of the problem and they should really attend to their own back yards instead of dropping bombs in other's. It's sad, but it's human nature for some damn reason. Guess you have to have the evil in order to have the good.

NP: Gary Moore - The Early Years
 
Wyvern said:
What's an Orangutan?


You with more Hair :lol:

orangutan_2.jpg
 
I don't want to sound like a sexual genius (ala a fucking know it all) but if there are problems with gangs and etc. it is probably due to either a money issue (or lack-there-of) or a "value" issue if they are first or second generation immigrants. Most countries that are democratic and are reasonably wealthy, have values where their family and money are one and two (though in no particular order) in their value system. Their allegiance to their country and government are also particularly high, but that is not so in some other countries.
The war in Iraq can be "won" by the American and "allied" forces only if they can get rid of the culture that exists in that country. The Iraqi citiczens there are Iraqi Citiczens only as an afterthought. They are first Sunni Muslim (as an example) and their religion is their highest value. They fight with Shi'as and Wahabis etc. Their denomination differences of the Muslim religion cause bloody feuds. If you are a Sunni and you die while killing a Pagan (a Shi-a or even more importantly a jew or Christian) then you go to heaven and live out your greatest dreams. The country they happen to live in s not so important.
Remember though that in those countries, most of the people with those mentalities are extremely poor and want a nice pot to cook in as their lifetime goal (on earth) as opposed to say a Corvette. They live in poverty and are not educated in the way "free" societies are. They do not understand modern culture as we understand it. They think technology is the devil himself. For generations the poor have been denied free will and education (as we know it, not as they do) so they know no better.
It is our responsibilty to let Ahmed/Pratibha from the local 7-11 to know he/she is doing a good job when we go to their store and get good service. Am I saying go out of the way to do that ? Hell no !! What I mean is that if they are doing a good job, comment them on it. They are people too and the more you can make them feel like they belong in your community, the more that they will act like good members of the community.
For those that don't want to act right.... want to shoot buildings up etc. Ha haha I am from Alabama. I have a twelve guage (shotgun) and a 270 (rifle) and will not be afraid to use it against anyone who tries to harm my family or me. "Beware redneck with gun.... will shoot." Other than that.... I ain't dying for Allah, God or whatever.


Bryant