Overdubbing rhythm guitars. How many tracks?

[zenx]

Hey everyone! First post, here goes:

I've been looking into different approaches for fattening up rhythm guitars with multiple overdubs. How do you all generally carry this out? How many tracks/takes do you use for each guitarist's performance? What if there's two guitarists (-> double both?). What panning's do you use for the different takes? Do you change anything on the setup between the takes (-> mic, amp, tone...?)

I guess the general way people do it is double each guitarist's part. Anybody use more than two per guitarist?
Also, do you do it for complete songs or only for some special parts (like a chorus or breakdown or something...)?

Andy, can you give us some examples of how many overdubs some bands used? (Like 36cf or KSE ? )

Hmm, I think I asked everything that came to mind ;-)

 

[Ermz]

I was about to create this same post, word for word, so I'll second the question. With emphasis on 'how many guitars are tracked?' 'what are the tonal/amplifying differences between them?' and 'is it one set of overdubs for each rhythmic part?'.

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

As andy would no doubt say, one of each side for a more defined thrashy feel... 2 on each side panned differently with different tone for fatassed metal.

 

[johnzorn]

As andy would no doubt say, one of each side for a more defined thrashy feel... 2 on each side panned differently with different tone for fatassed metal.

You mean for that tank-assed tone. That two, big christmas hams tone. Junk in the trunk tone........eh..either way, yeah, doubling two per-side is a good way.

 

[zenx]

... 2 on each side panned differently with different tone for fatassed metal.

so how does this look with two guitarists:
- Guitarist A has 2 takes on the left, 2 takes on the right, and Guitarist B the same or am I doubling up too quickly?

- Guitarist A has a take on the left, a take on the right, Guitarist B the same

or

- Guitarist A has 2 takes on the left, and Guitarist B has 2 takes on the right?


C?

 

[Ermz]

So for the fatassed metal tone, you'd essentially overdub the same part 4 times?

 

[Razorjack]

If your gonna double up do two takes with the original set-up and then re-map using a slightly less distorted amp with a bit more treble, do this for both guitarists (differet re-amping for both) and that will usually sound like a brick wall of guitar that cuts through from behind even the thickest mix.

 

[Ermz]

So now we're up to 6 times.. ouch. Doesn't it get really time consuming, doubling each part up an additional 5 times?

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

so how does this look with two guitarists:
- Guitarist A has 2 takes on the left, 2 takes on the right, and Guitarist B the same or am I doubling up too quickly?

- Guitarist A has a take on the left, a take on the right, Guitarist B the same

or

- Guitarist A has 2 takes on the left, and Guitarist B has 2 takes on the right?


C?

Depends if they play different parts, slightly different parts should be on either side, so option B. Dark Tranquillity do that really well.

 

[ThomasT]

Depends. Sometimes it sounds better Guitar B half-left/half-right and Guitar A hard left/hard right. Sometimes I record 5 guitars especially if guitar A is more a rhythm guitar and the other guitar B is more a lead guitar (means playing rhythm but some little melodies). Or six guitars (four A, two B) to have the option. This is useful when guitar B plays a different rhytm (e.g. 1/8th) and A only long tones and you want to hear the 1/8 but they should not dominate the riff.

 

[Cooperman]

I will 95% of the time prefer 2 each side and then will sometimes add harmony parts on top but panned to the centre more. If I could get a fat sound doing 1 per side I would... but I've yet to be able to achieve that. The Haunted's "One Kill Wonder" guitar sound is amazingly thick and that's only 1 per side. Until I can figure out how to get that fatness with 1 per side I'll stick with 2 per side.

I read in an old guitar magazine that Scott Ian did 6 rhythm tracks on Sound of White Noise. I think it reflects a bit in the sound in that the guitars sound like a wall of noise. Not really the sound I want, but I thought it was interesting.

 

[Ermz]

Cool, that's been a well of insight - thanks for the replies.

 

[kryckan]

I will 95% of the time prefer 2 each side and then will sometimes add harmony parts on top but panned to the centre more. If I could get a fat sound doing 1 per side I would... but I've yet to be able to achieve that. The Haunted's "One Kill Wonder" guitar sound is amazingly thick and that's only 1 per side. Until I can figure out how to get that fatness with 1 per side I'll stick with 2 per side.

Haunted use two 5150's for their guitars.
The guitar first go into the distorted channel then out and into the clean channel on the other amp. One cab for each head, both miked with 2 SM57's. One stright into the cone, and the other approx 45 degrees. The two channels on each cab are blended into one after taste. So, two tracks on each guitar, from four SM 57's.
Capisch?

 

[Cooperman]

Yeah that's all cool... but it's still 1 take per side. Typically the thickness on tracks with 2 per side comes from the slight differences in each take. To get that thickness but only have one take per side is what I really like about that album.