Overheads / Phase / HUGE Weakness... Advice needed

guitarguru777

guitarguru777

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Nov 13, 2003
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OK so now that I am starting to get some more projects int he new studio, I am really starting to notice my weaknesses when recording. My guitar and bass tones are not an issue. My drum sounds in general are great of the gear I am using, the only improvement I can really make in the sound of my drums is better mics.

My main issue right now is overheads. I have been doing a lot of drum sessions in the last few weeks and notice my cymbals ALWAYS sound washy and phasey no mater what I do. I cant seem to find the right balance. I could use some major advice as to how to get this to stop.

I am not talking so much as "processing" but more so mic placement in order to eliminate the phase issues. I understand the pricipals of the processing, EQ / Comp ... bla bla .... Its mores o the placement to keep everything in phase. I have been through all the threads on here and have tried to apply what they state but my results are still crappy :(

Any tips or hints would be appreciated.
 
My drums sound started to sound good when I stopped to think about phase and mic placement. I usually put the OH mics close to the cymbal/cymbals I wanna mic, at the same height from each other but without thinking about the "snare has to be in center of the 2 mics, if not I will be killed by god".
 
can you post just the raw overheads. i hear what your hearing. maybe the cymbals are crap?

i'm using two mxl603s and it sounds like this:
 
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have you tried flippping the phase on one of the overhead tracks? On a project I'm working on they were completely out of phase! helped place the snare in the center and spread the cymbals better (not too mention got rid of the washy-ness you are talking about)
 
If I'm using a spaced pair I'll measure from the capsule to the centre of the snare drum and make sure they're an equal distance. If I'm using a mono overhead and spot mics I just do whatever. Never been an issue for me. Zoom in and screenshot it so we can see if its out of phase.
 
If they sound out of phase they are most likely well, out of phase. From the sounds of things on the clip try tweaking the phase / aligning by hand. How far above the kit are you placing the overheads?
 
I was having a huge problem with overheads for a long time. Like what you described, I was getting washy sounding OH's and there was no clarity, definition and i felt they lacked punch. Using a spaced pair meant some cymbals were being picked up better than others.

Now I spot mic all the cymbals using the 3:1 rule as a guide for phase and pan them according to how they are on the kit. I use the room mic(s) to glue the kit together and on the last project I used a 57 about 10-12 feet above the snare as a mono overhead on a big room. Haven't mixed that one yet but I was liking it while playing around with the balance during tracking.

Check the phase of the individual spot mics and flip the phase of any that are 180 degrees or close to it out. I use the snare as the guide for phase.
Automate them in the mix to make them pop out so that the Ride mic for example isn't loud when it's not being used. Keeps the cymbals nice and punchy.

I'm still not totally happy with it but I feel it's more like where I want them to be and the room and cymbals and how they're used are playing much more of a part than how I am micing them.
 
Whoop, there's a stick hit at 3:00 mark :D

So.. er.. what's wrong with these? Nothing that I couldn't work with. How do they sound with all the other mics up?
Ok, the raw mix file sounds a bit muddy, so maybe carving that out phases things up??

I don't know the mics you are using, but maybe try a "studio standard" next time (rent?); C414, U87, etc..
That way, if the washyness goes away, be comforted in that it's not the indian, it's the arrow! :p

OTOH, I hear the AAX "tick" on the stick hit / attack (even with regular wood-tipped sticks).
Had a session with these a few months back and it's like ice-picks once you hear it.. Pokes above everything else! Very annoying to me.
 
Honestly, OH's are a big problem for me. I get overwhelmed and try to do the 3:1 rule, but any time I mess with it, I never quite notice a huge difference in the tonal qualities of the cymbals. Maybe I just need lots and lots and lots of more practice at it.
 
try something else that's not space pair. For rock, ortf has been working great for me. But hey...buy better mics lol
 
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