My band uses a PA when we practice to run 2 vocal mic's and triggers for our drummer. But, the PA we have is not powerful enough. We use a Nady 900watt poweramp, a behringer mixer, and a pair of 500 watt speakers (another shitty brand I can't remember) We have to have the poweramp all the way up (which makes it distort and feedback alot) to be able to hear the triggers/vocals over the band, and it's still not as loud as we would like it. I know we're running the poweramp stereo, so it's running 450watts to each speaker, which I'm pretty sure are also on the verge of blowing out. So, my question is: what do you guys think would be a good setup for us to run, that wouldn't cost us an arm load. Do we need more watts? Or just better quality equipment? Thanks for your help.
PA Problem...
- Thread starter ATLA
- Start date
Sounds to me like your gear is fine for practice. See if your power amp is in bridge or stereo mode, this will make a difference in wattage output. Also your 500watt speakers should be able to handle that power amp cranked wide open without fail. you have to make sure that on your mixing board you Zero out each mic input. and try to keep your master fader at 0 or under. Make sure to not have your mics directly in the throw of your speakers either as this will cause a shitton of feedback. And last but not least if your pa dosen't seem loud enough you need to level you guitar and bass amps just even with or slightly above drums. Remember its practice not a concert you dont have to be cranked to sound good and the drummer does not need to smash the drums either.
hope that helps,,,,if not buy in ears..lol
hope that helps,,,,if not buy in ears..lol
Well, we have the speakers in stereo, so the poweramp is run in stereo. I'll see if I can mess around with the mixer and get rid of the feedback. I think the biggest problem is that our drummer hits really hard (which is awesome) but we have turn up pretty loud. I agree with you, this should be enough wattage, but i have yet to manage to get it sounding good for us. haha. I'll work on it. Thanks for your help. If anyone else wants to chime in I'd appreciate it! Thanks 
alan1990
Member
Most power amps in mono (or bridged) are alot more powerful then they are in stereo.
As long as the signal is not clipping, a speaker should be able to take more then its rated for to an extent.
Ive seen 100watt speakers blow with only 30 watts of a clipped signal.I have learned that its a good idea to have an amp slightly more powerfull then the speaker it is powering to insure that the speakers see a clean signal. I have a 2x18 sub cabinet rated for 2200 watts but i have an amp that puts out 2600 i just run it at like 85%.
after you try the amp in bridged mode if its still not loud enough try cuting some bass out of everything that should let you bring the levels up higher without clipping
As long as the signal is not clipping, a speaker should be able to take more then its rated for to an extent.
Ive seen 100watt speakers blow with only 30 watts of a clipped signal.I have learned that its a good idea to have an amp slightly more powerfull then the speaker it is powering to insure that the speakers see a clean signal. I have a 2x18 sub cabinet rated for 2200 watts but i have an amp that puts out 2600 i just run it at like 85%.
after you try the amp in bridged mode if its still not loud enough try cuting some bass out of everything that should let you bring the levels up higher without clipping
yeah i have a drummer like that too..lol We use in ears and click tracks now but back in the day we got floor wedges instead of mains and that helped out a lot. those cheap behringer ones worked real well for us.
Trevoire520
Member
If you're using combo amps then try raising them up on chairs/crates so that they're facing your ears instead of your legs, this'll make it easier to hear the guitars at a lower volume.
For practice I don't see why you need to have triggers coming from the drums, surely the drums are loud enough in the room? If you ditch the triggers you should find it easier to hear the guitars and vocals.
Assuming the mics have a cardioid pattern then you should have the back of them facing the PA speakers.
Cutting alot of the low end from the mics should give you a bit more headroom and therefore let you bring up the level of the vocals more before they start clipping.
And as already said, get a stereo 32 band graphic eq and notch out the feedback frequencies (Behringers are great for this as they light up each slider whenever that frequency is present) but watch out as if your vocalist moves around alot then the frequency will change and the graphics setting will be useless. In this case an automatic feedback destroyer like Peaveys Feedback Ferret might work better.
Changing from mics with cardiod polar patterns to ones with supercardioid patterns should get some more gain before feedback.
And lastly, don't let the singer cup the mic, this alters the polar pattern and makes the mic MUCH more likely to feedback. Keep his hand back from the basket. This will also make him very popular with sound engineers at gigs
For practice I don't see why you need to have triggers coming from the drums, surely the drums are loud enough in the room? If you ditch the triggers you should find it easier to hear the guitars and vocals.
Assuming the mics have a cardioid pattern then you should have the back of them facing the PA speakers.
Cutting alot of the low end from the mics should give you a bit more headroom and therefore let you bring up the level of the vocals more before they start clipping.
And as already said, get a stereo 32 band graphic eq and notch out the feedback frequencies (Behringers are great for this as they light up each slider whenever that frequency is present) but watch out as if your vocalist moves around alot then the frequency will change and the graphics setting will be useless. In this case an automatic feedback destroyer like Peaveys Feedback Ferret might work better.
Changing from mics with cardiod polar patterns to ones with supercardioid patterns should get some more gain before feedback.
And lastly, don't let the singer cup the mic, this alters the polar pattern and makes the mic MUCH more likely to feedback. Keep his hand back from the basket. This will also make him very popular with sound engineers at gigs
Well, we're a death metal band, so definetly using half stacks. We don't have the triggers running so that we can hear the kicks, but so we get used to playing with them. Not too sure what mics we're using, but the singer's don't cup because they're both playing instruments I'll try some EQing on the vocals and the triggers, hopefully I can get shit sounding better.
Thanks for all the help guys.
We don't have the triggers running so that we can hear the kicks, but so we get used to playing with them. Not too sure what mics we're using, but the singer's don't cup because they're both playing instruments I'll try some EQing on the vocals and the triggers, hopefully I can get shit sounding better. Thanks for all the help guys.
smy1
Member
Make the drummer play softer and turn down everything. Seriously. He can practice his hard-hitting playing on his own. Band practice is there to practice playing with other people, so unless you have a great sounding PA and a good room, just turn it down. If you are not a medium-level band you'll be playing small clubs anyway and a drummer who is not that loud will be worth his weight in gold there. My drummer is extremely powerful, but he plays really soft if the situation needs it. Sounds MUCH better in smaller clubs!
Also: all of a sudden you'll start hearing all the mistakes.
Also: all of a sudden you'll start hearing all the mistakes.
my thoughts exactly.
we're using a comparable setup (2 vocal mics, trigger, behringer mixer, can't recall the poweramp right now though) and there are zero problems with the PA being too quiet.
aside from the advice quoted above, make sure your guitar amps are dialed right...the sounds should compliment each other. use less gain, more mids, so your sound becomes more punchy and cutting at a lower relative volume. (yes, mids are good, even in a death metal band
)regarding the PA, be sure that the mic input gain is set right. enable the low cut on the mic channels. on the trigger, use a sound that's mainly click, with little to no bass thump - remember, there already IS a fat bassdrum being played in the room, so all you should use the trigger for is some top end click to make it more audible and cutting. you'll need much less volume this way.
set up the Pspeakers correctly, i.e. not on the floor, and be careful not to have your vocalist directly in front of them (feedback!).
if you follow these guidelines there shouldn't really be the need for a big EQ imho.
live sound (even band rehearsals) depends on basically the same things as studio sound....you have to make space for each instrument to sit in, so that things are complimenting and not fighting each other.
