Panning double tracked metal guitars

[Devon8822]

Double tracking makes sense to me for a band with say only one guitarist, where he needs to fill both sides when playing a lead panned center, but for your typical metal band with 2 rhythm chugga chugga guitars, having guitar one with 2 tracks panned left and right and guitar two with 2 tracks panned left and right, there would be no localization of the guitars, they would both consume the stereo field.

Does anybody pan so that guitar 1 has two track both panned left (overlapping), and than guitar 2 both tracks panned hard right (overlapping), so as to ditch the stereo effect whilst retaining the localization, and making the guitars a bit thicker?

 

[Siriun]

This is a very common thing when double and quad tracking guitars. Let me share a tip with you: When double tracking guitars for example, If you're going to do 2 tracks for one guitar and pan both the same, then It's a common practice to also turn the gain down
on both tracks since they'll be on top of eachother. This in turns creates a fuller outcome and it an end result that sounds thicker because you're taking 2 weaker sources so to say, and blending them into a whole. You retain the thickness of 2 takes on top of each other but you don't overstep the gain so it dosen't sound like it's a fizzy mess and you want it to equal out the desired gain. (Ex= First pass, gain is @ 3. Record again with say a different amp, turn gain @ 3 and record that pass. Sure, you have low gain on each track but because it compiles together it'll sound more distorted and thicker because you're overlapping it.

 

[JakeAC5253]

Does anybody pan so that guitar 1 has two track both panned left (overlapping), and than guitar 2 both tracks panned hard right (overlapping), so as to ditch the stereo effect whilst retaining the localization, and making the guitars a bit thicker?

This is the correct way to do it.

This is a very common thing when double and quad tracking guitars. Let me share a tip with you: When double tracking guitars for example, If you're going to do 2 tracks for one guitar and pan both the same, then It's a common practice to also turn the gain down
on both tracks since they'll be on top of eachother. This in turns creates a fuller outcome and it an end result that sounds thicker because you're taking 2 weaker sources so to say, and blending them into a whole. You retain the thickness of 2 takes on top of each other but you don't overstep the gain so it dosen't sound like it's a fizzy mess and you want it to equal out the desired gain. (Ex= First pass, gain is @ 3. Record again with say a different amp, turn gain @ 3 and record that pass. Sure, you have low gain on each track but because it compiles together it'll sound more distorted and thicker because you're overlapping it.

Yes and no. It is a general rule for using a decent but not overbearing amount of gain when in the studio, but it's not pertinent to number of layered tracks. A tone can be very high gain and tight at the same time. A muddy sound with the gain turned down lower, is just a lower gain muddy sound, lower gain won't help you fix any problems in and of itself anyway is what I'm saying.

Also, a LARGE aspect of one's perception of how much "gain" is on a guitar tone, is how the EQ curve is perceived, rather than any setting on the gain knob. I was recently dialing in sim tones for a musician tracking DIs at my place, he said too much gain bro, can you back it off a bit? I loaded a different cab IR... PERFECT dude!

 

[Siriun]

This is the correct way to do it.



Yes and no. It is a general rule for using a decent but not overbearing amount of gain when in the studio, but it's not pertinent to number of layered tracks. A tone can be very high gain and tight at the same time. A muddy sound with the gain turned down lower, is just a lower gain muddy sound, lower gain won't help you fix any problems in and of itself anyway is what I'm saying.

Also, a LARGE aspect of one's perception of how much "gain" is on a guitar tone, is how the EQ curve is perceived, rather than any setting on the gain knob. I was recently dialing in sim tones for a musician tracking DIs at my place, he said too much gain bro, can you back it off a bit? I loaded a different cab IR... PERFECT dude!

Really? In my experiences If I've ever quad tracked through an amp that was full on gain the end result is nothing but fizz fizz fizz for me. Back down the gain a little for each track and viola. Usually for me If I record @ half gain (5-7 usually) it turns out pretty decent.

Also, When I said 3 gain I was just using an example. For me, low gain is usually around 5 or so. And I say low gain because compared to full gain it's more sustainable and distinguishable.

 

[JakeAC5253]

Really? In my experiences If I've ever quad tracked through an amp that was full on gain the end result is nothing but fizz fizz fizz for me. Back down the gain a little for each track and viola. Usually for me If I record @ half gain (5-7 usually) it turns out pretty decent.

Also, When I said 3 gain I was just using an example. For me, low gain is usually around 5 or so. And I say low gain because compared to full gain it's more sustainable and distinguishable.

Gain on full? No, that's not at all what I said.

 

[Greyanaroth]

I've sometims found, with quad tracking guitars, hard pan left/right on ALL 4 tracks gives you a weird phasey effect if you listen to any one speaker in mono. A quick fix was 100/100 90/90 (A/B C/D) - still had a wide stereo field, and no phasey overtones.

The thumb rule I tend to use for quad tracking is, make the guitarist get a tone he's comfortable playing to, and turn down the gain a wee bit from there so it's in a sweet spot - i.e. pussy picking will be exposed - it's also more rewarding for players with a consistent and attacky right hand. Also, reamping REALLY helps here - sometimes, the tones you hear on record can be REALLY dodgy to play to, unless your guitarist is really heavy handed in the right hand. I personally wouldn't like playing to the tones I'd print as final on record, but by the gods, turning down the gain does wonders to your mix! Cleans up, makes space for more stuff, and actually makes it sound more menacing.

Also, like jake said, gain is perceived by a lot of folks WRT eq shaping - in particular, the 8-12k buzz you hear on tracks. Turn that down and it instantly sounds "lower gain".

About how to handle 2 guitar players - there's no RULE as such - sometimes, for some bands, hard panning each guitarist (LL/RR) works, sometimes printing them LR/LR also works if they're doing alot of harmonies etc. You've to play it by ear, really, and take a judgement call on that. Typically, LL/RR is the favored method, but I've heard tons of records with LRLR, especially where there are a lot of harmonies, work like a charm.

Experiment! And have fun