Panning Guitars

S

scabbypads

New Metal Member
Oct 31, 2005
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0
1
If 2 guitar players both did 2 tracks how would one go about panning them?
Also, if you do something like this:

Guitar 1A: Left 80%
Guitar 1B: Right 80%

does that just center them, and defeat the purpose?
 
I don't agree.

This is what I think:

1A - 100% L
1B - 100% R
2A - 80% L
2B - 80% R

Even if guitars 1A and 1B are played by the same guitarist /w the same guitar and the same amp settings, the difference between the takes is big enough to create a nice and wide stereo image. And same with 2A and 2B. This is the way I learned to do it in Studio Fredman, but of course this does not make it MORE RIGHT than any other solution. It's just the way I prefer to do it.
 
I think it depends on the arrangement. And this is something that you need to think of when you're first putting the song together. Always have an eye on what you want your final recorded mix to sound like.

With the stuff I've been recording of my own band lately (and I try to get other bands to do it as well, but it really depends on how they thought out their arrangements...) the songs tend to flow from intricate guitar parts where one or both guitars are playing melody lines to more simple rhythmic structures like you'd have under a verse or chorus.

The idea there is to let the vocal move and fill the mix and don't go around obscuring it with fiddly guitar bits.

To that end -- When both guitarists are playing the same rhythm part, I'd agree with keeping it:

GTR 1A - Hard Left
GTR 1B - 80% Left
GTR 2A - Hard Right
GTR 2B - 80% Right

But when you get to something where you have an intro or a pre-chorus and one guitar plays a note-y line over the other guy's rhythm, I feel it works better to pan the rhythm players tracks out wide and put the other part in a bit so you end up with:

GTR 1A (rhythm) - Hard Left
GTR 2A (melody, notes, etc...) - 80% Left
GTR 2B (melody, notes, etc...) - 80% Right
GTR 1B (rhythm) - Hard Right


Now - when you're recording digitally it's simple to hack up your objects and drag the sections to adjoining tracks and then pan the tracks. This does require that you use six or eight tracks for four tracks of guitars, but it gets you away from trying to automate panning, which is fine until you decide you want to change it and then you have to slide 400 handles two pixels up or down.

That's just my 2 cents. I find with this (melodic thrash/gothenburg/euro metal/whatever) stuff having the guitar parts occupy distinct spaces when they are playing distinct lines makes the mix balance better.

It's a matter of personal choice whether you want your rhythm sounds to be "stereoized" or to have it be a thing where you can say, "Hey, Dirk is in the left speaker and Jens is in the right speaker..." when you play it for your mom.

ryan
 
hourglass said:
I think it depends on the arrangement. And this is something that you need to think of when you're first putting the song together. Always have an eye on what you want your final recorded mix to sound like.

With the stuff I've been recording of my own band lately (and I try to get other bands to do it as well, but it really depends on how they thought out their arrangements...) the songs tend to flow from intricate guitar parts where one or both guitars are playing melody lines to more simple rhythmic structures like you'd have under a verse or chorus.

The idea there is to let the vocal move and fill the mix and don't go around obscuring it with fiddly guitar bits.

To that end -- When both guitarists are playing the same rhythm part, I'd agree with keeping it:

GTR 1A - Hard Left
GTR 1B - 80% Left
GTR 2A - Hard Right
GTR 2B - 80% Right

But when you get to something where you have an intro or a pre-chorus and one guitar plays a note-y line over the other guy's rhythm, I feel it works better to pan the rhythm players tracks out wide and put the other part in a bit so you end up with:

GTR 1A (rhythm) - Hard Left
GTR 2A (melody, notes, etc...) - 80% Left
GTR 2B (melody, notes, etc...) - 80% Right
GTR 2A (rhythm) - Hard Right


Now - when you're recording digitally it's simple to hack up your objects and drag the sections to adjoining tracks and then pan the tracks. This does require that you use six or eight tracks for four tracks of guitars, but it gets you away from trying to automate panning, which is fine until you decide you want to change it and then you have to slide 400 handles two pixels up or down.

That's just my 2 cents. I find with this (melodic thrash/gothenburg/euro metal/whatever) stuff having the guitar parts occupy distinct spaces when they are playing distinct lines makes the mix balance better.

It's a matter of personal choice whether you want your rhythm sounds to be "stereoized" or to have it be a thing where you can say, "Hey, Dirk is in the left speaker and Jens is in the right speaker..." when you play it for your mom.

ryan
Click to expand...

This seems to be what's happening on TGE to me, maybe my ears are crap but if you listen to the pre-verse riff in Born the semi-lead guitar's are panned 80 and the rhythm guitars are on the outside and then once you hit the verse, the normal riff goes in one speaker and then the harmony on the left. I think that works pretty well.
 
Hey, thanks for all the help. im gonna try this out:

GTR 1A - Hard Left
GTR 1B - 80% Left
GTR 2A - Hard Right
GTR 2B - 80% Right


GTR 1A (rhythm) - Hard Left
GTR 2A (melody, notes, etc...) - 80% Left
GTR 2B (melody, notes, etc...) - 80% Right
GTR 1B (rhythm) - Hard Right

Another thing though - what if i throw two mics on each take?
 
If one mic isn't working try it, it could sound great. But make sure you're not overcomplicating something that could be solved with setting your amp better.
 
Matt Crooks said:
If 1A and 1B are the same part just doubled, and 2A and 2B are the second part doubled, I stand by what I said...
Click to expand...

After thinking this through and looking on what I wrote, I agree on what you're saying (if I understand you right) AND what I'm saying. :loco:

Let's look at what I said, /w comments that explains what I meant. And folks, this is just an example. Real life example though, from our first three album recordings in Studio Fredman.

1A - 100% L - ENGL amp
1B - 100% R - ENGL amp
2A - 80% L - 5150 amp
2B - 80% R - 5150 amp

1A and 1B does not have to be the same part doubled, but they have to have the same sound to make the overall sound balanced. An alternative is to make 1A and 1B exactly the same, and make the L/R variations and harmonies on the 2A/2B tracks. All this is IMHO of course.

On our last album, we just used a 5150. 1A/1B with one guitar/amp setting, and 2A/2B with another guitar/other amp setting. A few full songs here if you wanna hear it: http://www.myspace.com/thestorytellersweden
 
scabbypads said:
If 2 guitar players both did 2 tracks how would one go about panning them?
Also, if you do something like this:

Guitar 1A: Left 80%
Guitar 1B: Right 80%

does that just center them, and defeat the purpose?
Click to expand...

Listen to it and see what sounds best. Sometimes it will sound better when each guy has his own side and on some songs it works better mixed.
 
TheStoryteller said:
After thinking this through and looking on what I wrote, I agree on what you're saying (if I understand you right) AND what I'm saying. :loco:

Let's look at what I said, /w comments that explains what I meant. And folks, this is just an example. Real life example though, from our first three album recordings in Studio Fredman.

1A - 100% L - ENGL amp
1B - 100% R - ENGL amp
2A - 80% L - 5150 amp
2B - 80% R - 5150 amp

1A and 1B does not have to be the same part doubled, but they have to have the same sound to make the overall sound balanced. An alternative is to make 1A and 1B exactly the same, and make the L/R variations and harmonies on the 2A/2B tracks. All this is IMHO of course.

On our last album, we just used a 5150. 1A/1B with one guitar/amp setting, and 2A/2B with another guitar/other amp setting. A few full songs here if you wanna hear it: http://www.myspace.com/thestorytellersweden
Click to expand...

Yeah... we're saying the same thing, I'm thinking as 1A & 1B to be the same PART, and you thinking as 1A & 1 to be the same AMP.

:kickass:
 
how about volume levels on panned guitar tracks? I lower my volume levels on my guitars that are panned at 75-80% about 5-7db....anybody else doing that as well?
 
Carcass29 said:
how about volume levels on panned guitar tracks? I lower my volume levels on my guitars that are panned at 75-80% about 5-7db....anybody else doing that as well?
Click to expand...


i do that sometimes, depends how drastic the change in tone is between the guitars panned 80% compared to the ones panned 100%
 
You're all looking at this the wrong way....Obviously there is no right or wrong to pan anything but I would suggest panning the guitars in a way that would leave space sonically for other instruments with EQ'ing/Compression if needed to help make room. Hope this shed a little light on the subject...If you leave them panned straight up they'd be fighting with the Bass, Lead Vocal and Kick Drum....
:kickass:
 
Carcass29 said:
how about volume levels on panned guitar tracks? I lower my volume levels on my guitars that are panned at 75-80% about 5-7db....anybody else doing that as well?
Click to expand...
that does make sense really, coz when you hard pan... you lose about 3 db a side, so lowering the volume of the 75-80 guits makes sense
 
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