Panning

[Executioner213]

I've read a bunch of books on stuff, but I'm still not quite happy with the results I'm getting. What forms of panning (techniques) to you guys use? I know some of you double stuff up, so lets hear what you do there too.

I've been mostly doing guitars at 100% left or right...then a copy of that track to 80% left or right (sometimes at a lower volume). Bass usually up the middle or copied and then 20% left and right. Kick & Snare usually center. Vox is new to me, so I just play with it and see what happens. Toms/Cymbals I usually pan in a spectrum based on how many of each and what kind of feel I'm going for (i.e. if there are 5 toms, then I even them out between the mix individually)

 

[sorceron]

ive generally found that copying a track to try and fatten it up doesnt do much. if your going for that you should just do another take at 80%. just my opinion

 

[cornerarea]

Hi everyone! This is my first post, been following this forum for a month now. Great advice and discussion going on here, thank you for that!

Ok, here's my take on the subject:

I always think of the stereo image of the song. Picture the band playing in front of you live. Vocals and kick are in the middle. Snare and hihat are little bit to your right, toms (hi to low) go from right to left. Bass player could be on the left or right side of the drummer. Guitar players are more far right and left. If there's backing vocals, they're probably around center.

That would be a start for me, when I'm starting to pan the tracks around. Then I just experiment, what sounds good, what fits the song you're mixing. A rule of thumb could be, that try not to have any instrument in the same pan position, at least not ones with the same frequency range. That said, vocals and kick can be dead center because they got different frequency ranges. These in mind, should provide a more "spacious" mix, at least stereo-wise.

 

[NathanSoulfracture]

Bass player could be on the left or right side of the drummer.

you pan the bass player to the left or right? my panning usually goes:

Kick: Center
Snare: Center
Hi's: 30% R
Cymbals: varies, usually within the range of 40L-40R
Toms (r-l, hi-lo) : 20, 20, 30

Bass: Center

Guitar 4 tracks: 100R, 80R, 80L, 100L

Vocals: Center

thats roughly the usual for me.

 

[ghostchant]

does anyone here pan their overheads hard left and hard right?? Thats what i've always done??

 

[cornerarea]

you pan the bass player to the left or right? my panning usually goes:

Kick: Center
Snare: Center
Hi's: 30% R
Cymbals: varies, usually within the range of 40L-40R
Toms (r-l, hi-lo) : 20, 20, 30

Bass: Center

Guitar 4 tracks: 100R, 80R, 80L, 100L

Vocals: Center

thats roughly the usual for me.

No, I meant I pan the Bass maybe 5% left or right. A bit to the side, and it gives you more space in the center, yet it still appears to be center when you listen to it.

I also pan snare a bit right. I pan drums according to the stereo picture from the overheads. Of course, if you set your overheads so that snare is center, then the close miked snare track should be panned accordingly.

Otherwise, I'm pretty much on the same line with your suggestions.

 

[A Gruesome Discovery]

No, I meant I pan the Bass maybe 5% left or right. A bit to the side, and it gives you more space in the center, yet it still appears to be center when you listen to it.

Hmm, I've always found that panning the bass anywhere but center will shift the focal point; the human ear tends to lock onto lower frequencies for orientation purposes, and a shift in either direction will shift the center a bit. If it sounds good, it is good of course, but watch out for balance issues and make sure there isn't too much more power on one channel than another.
I generally consider the bass and kick as one element which compliment and reinforce each other, so I keep them on top of each other, always. The snare shouldn't overlap any major frequencies in the bass, and unless you're Peter Steele or Barry White, the vocals shouldn't really either, so I tend to get enough space even with all of these panned center.

 

[James Murphy]

I've read a bunch of books on stuff, but I'm still not quite happy with the results I'm getting. What forms of panning (techniques) to you guys use? I know some of you double stuff up, so lets hear what you do there too.

I've been mostly doing guitars at 100% left or right...then a copy of that track to 80% left or right (sometimes at a lower volume). Bass usually up the middle or copied and then 20% left and right. Kick & Snare usually center. Vox is new to me, so I just play with it and see what happens. Toms/Cymbals I usually pan in a spectrum based on how many of each and what kind of feel I'm going for (i.e. if there are 5 toms, then I even them out between the mix individually)

you've been on this forum for a while now haven't you?.... i'd have thought you'd know better than to just copy tracks and think it's actually doing anything for you at all . yeah, as Ken (abigailwilliams) says... play it again. a copy of a track will simply have the effect of making the original track sound a bit louder. panning the copy will have the effect of making the original sound seem to be panned. so, the similar results could be had by simply raising the volume of your original track and panning it in a bit.

sometimes people will try this trick and offset the copy by a few miliseconds... this sounds like ass. just play it again, there are no shortcuts. this has all been covered extensively in past threads.

 

[~BURNY~]

Well the offset thing sound like ass on guitars but it's quite interesting on other things like a specific synth part or backing vocals.
I don't see myself using it on a main instrument but sometimes it's interesting on a specific part.
I know you were talking about guitars James, no argument intended.

 

[Carrier Flux]

Well the offset thing sound like ass on guitars but it's quite interesting on other things like a specific synth part or backing vocals.
I don't see myself using it on a main instrument but sometimes it's interesting on a specific part.
I know you were talking about guitars James, no argument intended.

yeah it's highly useful on synths. I've had good luck there. guitars, not so much..hehe.. I've used that trick on vocals as well but it gets really fatiguing to the listener REALLY fast. it just sounds irritating if you do it all the time. so in other words it can be a handy trick, but definitely not useful for a full time effect in building a stereo image.

 

[Fragle]

+1 for double/triple/whatever tracking rhythm guitars
however, making a copy of a lead guitar track, and panning them both hard left/right can be a nice effect for spicing up lead tracks. although imho there's nothing better than doubletracking lead tracks like randy rhoads used to do.

 

[~BURNY~]

+1 for double/triple/whatever tracking rhythm guitars
however, making a copy of a lead guitar track, and panning them both hard left/right can be a nice effect for spicing up lead tracks. although imho there's nothing better than doubletracking lead tracks like randy rhoads used to do.

Just a simple copy? If there's no time (phase) or level (pan)difference there's no point doing this. It's monophonic.
Same sound on both sides = dead center.

 

[James Murphy]

+1 for double/triple/whatever tracking rhythm guitars
however, making a copy of a lead guitar track, and panning them both hard left/right can be a nice effect for spicing up lead tracks. although imho there's nothing better than doubletracking lead tracks like randy rhoads used to do.

yeah, as burny says... making a copy and panning original to one side and copy to the other just gives you a mono, dead center panned version of the track. useless.

 

[kev]

Fraglethere's nothing better than doubletracking lead tracks like randy rhoads used to do.

Thanks for that!

 

[James Murphy]

i've been doing that, double tracking in unison, for years. love it. ya have to play it though, no digital copying.

 

[chadsxe]

This seems like a never ending battle......99% of time doubling a track via copy and paste is going to be a waste of time....if there is even a question in you head like "won't it loose its tightness with two diffrent tracks" then you obviously don't practice your instrument enough....

 

[A Gruesome Discovery]

This seems like a never ending battle......99% of time doubling a track via copy and paste is going to be a waste of time....if there is even a question in you head like "won't it loose its tightness with two diffrent tracks" then you obviously don't practice your instrument enough....

...or you haven't found the 'nudge' tool yet

 

[Kazrog]

I've gotten copies of GarageBand sessions from semi-n00b friends who copy/paste each guitar track FOUR times and stuff... AND the guitar tracks are in STEREO from a POD even though no stereo FX are used... so it's 8 total identical tracks... it's like some kind of infectious disease... make it stop!!!

 

[chadsxe]

I've gotten copies of GarageBand sessions from semi-n00b friends who copy/paste each guitar track FOUR times and stuff... AND the guitar tracks are in STEREO from a POD even though no stereo FX are used... so it's 8 total identical tracks... it's like some kind of infectious disease... make it stop!!!

It is sad....it really makes me question just how much people use there ears....

 

[~BURNY~]

During my engineering course years, there was plenty of guys who were actually hearing a difference when splitting/panning a track... And they were totally honest.
Oh well