PETA angered by naked chicken :)

grywolf627

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Okay, now...this isn't mean to devolve into one of the many vegan/vegetarian vs. meat eaters fights that we have from time to time around here. We all know where most of us stand from previous threads, and we aren't going to change anyone's minds. Okay? Okay. Now that being said...I find this pretty freaking hilarious and ridiculous at the same time:


"...The "pin-up" style photo of a raw chicken lounging seductively ran in Wednesday's food section of the New York Times along with a story on the appeal of crispy, savory chicken skin. Now the animal cruelty prevention organization is aiming their laser-beam target at the old gray lady.

"When I saw it I just couldn't believe that an editor of 'The New York Times' would find it acceptable," PETA's founder and president Ingrid Newkirk told The Atlantic Wire. "It's downright offensive, not just to people who care about animals but almost to everyone. It's a plucked, beheaded, young chicken in a young pose," she said..."



http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/food/is-this-chicken-too-sexy-peta-thinks-so-2572348/
 
I think the chicken photo was pretty funny. I don't see what there is to get angry about.

The descriptions I have read in the news of the planned PETA xxx site sound kind of retarded. Who at PETA thought it was a good idea?

My parents were members of PETA (not sure if they still are) and they are the types that would get upset by a PETA xxx site and stop supporting the organization over this type of thing.
 
They're extremists. And like most extremists their views are warped and biased. It's when they can influence popular culture and so on that they become truly dangerous.
 
They're extremists. And like most extremists their views are warped and biased. It's when they can influence popular culture and so on that they become truly dangerous.

What about them is extreme? They don't even see veganism as the moral baseline. Even though they refer to PETA as a animal rights organisation, they are animal welfarists and they aren't abolitionists.

I also like the usage of "extreme" in a negative sense. So the people who fought for the abolition of human slavery were extremists and therefore their views were warped and biased, right?

Since PETA is a welfarist organisation I can't symphatize with them - but why do you think they are (or could become) dangerous?
 
^ They are extremists, and they are abolitionists. If they had their way they would abolish any form of meat/animal produce in any way shape or form, and the way they go about their beliefs is both ridiculous and illegal (throwing paint on people wearing animal products etc..).

The entire organisation is a joke, but a joke that makes me unbelievably enraged.

EDIT: They also call themselves a 'welfare' organisation, but there have been a number of stories about their workers killing animals, and then statistics like in the following link that totally dissolve any illusion of being a 'good' organisation they may have;

http://www.petakillsanimals.com/
 
They certainly don't propagate abolitionism.
Everything they do is typical for the (new) welfarist approach.
Go on this site and see read what they consider as "success": http://www.peta.org/about/learn-about-peta/peta2.aspx

Everything they do is campaign for regulation, not abolition. For an abolitionist and animal rights activist, "bigger cages, ban of fur, vegetarianism, boycott of leather and fur, free-range eggs, "happy meat" etc. isn't a success. In fact, it's the opposite.

Read some Gary L. Francione if you want to know what animal rights and abolition are about.

Not that I support any of the camapigns by PETA, but in order to abolish the slavery of human animals, abolitionists had to break the law - I guess they shouldn't have done that.

EDIT: They also call themselves a 'welfare' organisation, but there have been a number of stories about their workers killing animals, and then statistics like in the following link that totally dissolve any illusion of being a 'good' organisation they may have;

http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

Yeah, they are welfarists and not animal rights activists. So, if you know what that means, you shouldn't be surprised about any of this.
 
^ The missus worked for a welfare organisation for years, and their statistics are nowhere near as bad as PETA's... An 'average' euthanasia rate of 85% (but one that has been more or less on a steady rise for the last 12 years) is fucking horrendous for any welfare organisation - and to make themselves out to be a welfare organisation and then put almost all the proceeds towards the fucking ridiculous campaigns and publicity stunts they do is beyond hypocritical.

I also believe this section detailing the overarching views of the organisation make them out to absolutely be an animal welfare organisation that is also an animal rights organisation... If that also doesn't constitute blatant and absolute hypocrisy then I don't know what does...

http://www.peta.org/about/why-peta/euthanasia.aspx



I may be wrong about the 'organisation' promoting abolition, but the views of it's founder/owner/head certainly promote that view as do many of its more radical members.
 
I don't doubt that there are differences between the different animal welfare organisations. But still they are all equally bad for the animal-rights movement.

I know the views of Newkirk, but what PETA does is still pure animal-welfarist- and anti-abolitionist bs (no matter what her personal views are).

Since your usage of the word "radical" suggests a negative connotation - I can't see what's "radical" and "extreme" about the abolitionist approach in this context.
 
What's radical about the organisation are their methods and their goals. They have no interest in a middle-ground, they are absolutely opposed to owning animals, eating or using animals in any way, shape or form, and the methods they use are ridiculous.

EDIT: And yes, both in a bad way.
 
What's radical about the organisation are their methods and their goals. They have no interest in a middle-ground, they are absolutely opposed to owning animals, eating or using animals in any way, shape or form, and the methods they use are ridiculous.

EDIT: And yes, both in a bad way.

A middle-ground? What would that be?
Should the abolitionists opposed to human slavery also asked for a "middle-ground"?
How could any "usage" of non-human animals be morally justified?
 
Firstly, animals can be eaten and have been for the last however many million years, just as animal products leftover from the food have been used for clothing for almost the same amount of time. Like it or not, there is such a thing as a humane way to rear animals for food - and instead of pushing for the rights and lives of the animals to be immediately better (making the conditions in which the animals are kept and killed better and more humane) which would be the middle ground, PETA push straight for the big one by trying to get the majority (and meat eaters are the majority) to simply 'give up' meat and by-products of it.

Secondly; this is not about human slavery.

Thirdly Animals are used for more than just food and clothing. Pets provide company for the elderly or lonely, aid for the blind and are rescue dogs are used by many organisations around the world, animal testing is the backbone of most advancements in the medical industry, and is a strong source of nutrition as food. They are specially trained, reared and bred for their individual jobs and PETA are even opposed to those aspects.
 
Firstly, animals can be eaten and have been for the last however many million years, just as animal products leftover from the food have been used for clothing for almost the same amount of time. Like it or not, there is such a thing as a humane way to rear animals for food - and instead of pushing for the rights and lives of the animals to be immediately better (making the conditions in which the animals are kept and killed better and more humane) which would be the middle ground, PETA push straight for the big one by trying to get the majority (and meat eaters are the majority) to simply 'give up' meat and by-products of it.

Secondly; this is not about human slavery.

Thirdly Animals are used for more than just food and clothing. Pets provide company for the elderly or lonely, aid for the blind and are rescue dogs are used by many organisations around the world, animal testing is the backbone of most advancements in the medical industry, and is a strong source of nutrition as food. They are specially trained, reared and bred for their individual jobs and PETA are even opposed to those aspects.

This is pretty much everything I would have to say. But this wouldn't convince PETA activists, as they kinda like to run around with their hands on their ears shouting "LALALALALALALALALALALALAAAA" and pretending those issues would solve by themselves/don't exist at all.
 
A middle-ground? What would that be?
Should the abolitionists opposed to human slavery also asked for a "middle-ground"?
How could any "usage" of non-human animals be morally justified?

You've automatically invalidated your point by comparing human slavery to eating meat.

Much the same as PETA invalidate their own arguments by comparing farms to the holocaust.
 
Firstly, animals can be eaten and have been for the last however many million years, just as animal products leftover from the food have been used for clothing for almost the same amount of time.

Let me analyse this:

1. Animals can be eaten.
2. Animals have been eaten before.
3. Animals have been used before.

Therefore it's morally justified to eat and use animals.


Not only is that a naturalistic fallacy, it's also an easy victim to reductio ad absurdum (also, the conclusion doesn't follow even if we assume the truth of the premises).

1. Women can be oppressed.
2. Women have been oppressed.

Therefore it's morally justified to oppress women.

Men have killed each other, enslaved each other and exploited each other for a very long time. Obviously, that's not a reason to continue these practices; it's rather a reason to abolish them.


Like it or not, there is such a thing as a humane way to rear animals for food - and instead of pushing for the rights and lives of the animals to be immediately better (making the conditions in which the animals are kept and killed better and more humane) which would be the middle ground, PETA push straight for the big one by trying to get the majority (and meat eaters are the majority) to simply 'give up' meat and by-products of it.

Really? You can cage, exploit and kill a sentient being in a "humane" way? Elaborate.

Gary L. Francione said:
If someone were to say, "rape is pervasive and has been so throughout history so let's take the baby step of encouraging 'happy,' or more 'humane,' rape," most of us would find that morally objectionable and a very bad practical strategy for dealing with an admittedly pervasive and longstanding problem of violence against women. We would take the position that rape is morally objectionable--however "humanely" it is done. The same reasoning applies to animal exploitation.

If you knew that a friend of yours beats his wife everyday. Would you tell him to only beat her twice a week or to stop beating her?

It's also interesting that you acknowledge that there is something wrong with causing suffering to non-human animals. I assume that you would accept the premise that it's wrong to cause unnecessary suffering on non-human animals. What follows from that is, of course, that veganism is the moral baseline.



Secondly; this is not about human slavery.

It's abolition vs. regulation, it's about slavery and the arguments are the same. The people who didn't want human slavery to be abolished argued just like you (and any other speciesist). If you really think that the logical inference from your premises is that the exploitation of non-human animals is morally justified then you either have to accept the view that the exploitation and enslavement of human animals is justified as well or ditch your premises (or you could come back with a pure speciesist argument which would put you on the same level of argumentation as any racist or sexist.)

Nature, governed by unerring laws which command the oak to be stronger than the willow [...] has at the same time imposed on mankind certain restrictions, which can never be overcome. (John Drayton (1802), in: Theodore Parsons (1773), in: Proslavery. A History of the Defense of Slavery in America (1701-1840), University of Georgia Press, 2004, p. 38)

In this argument, the advocates for emancipation blend the ideas of injustice and cruelty with those, which respect the existence of slavery, and consider them as inseparable. But, surely, they may be separated. A bond-servant may be treated with justice and humanity as a servant; and a master may, in an important sense, be the guardian and even father of his slaves. (Richard Furman: Exposition of The Views of the Baptists, Relative to the coloured Population In the United States, Charleston 1838, S. 13)

All the parallels in it's detail are described in "The Dreaded Comparison: Human and Animal Slavery" by Majorie Spiegel (which I recommend).

Fun fact: Majorie Spiegel sued PETA.



Pets provide company for the elderly or lonely, aid for the blind and are rescue dogs are used by many organisations around the world, animal testing is the backbone of most advancements in the medical industry, and is a strong source of nutrition as food.

After all, you fail to give an argument as to why a justification of the usage of non-human animals follows from these points and your premises can be easily attacked.

The only one that might be worth discussing is the claim that "animal testing is the backbone of most advancements in the medical industry".

I recommend "Brute science: Dilemmas of animal experimentation" by Hugh Lafollette and Niall Shanks if you want to have a systematical and thorough analysis of both sides arguments and the actual facts.

I also recommend to stay away from making such claims without having the arguments and facts to back them up. Also, to be honest, the "nutrition" argument usually comes from people who ask " and where do you get your protein?" and know little to nothing about nutrition.


I'm really into fruitful discussions; but fruitful discussions aren't possible without sound arguments.