Phrasing

[Noumenon]

How the hell does one incorporate phrasing into the daily workout?
It's not like it's the LEAST massive subject to conquer. I'm acutally thinking about going back to my jazzteacher to tackle that subject. He'd bring an interesting point of view.

 

[Steve Smyth]

How the hell does one incorporate phrasing into the daily workout?
It's not like it's the LEAST massive subject to conquer. I'm acutally thinking about going back to my jazzteacher to tackle that subject. He'd bring an interesting point of view.

Noumenon,
I think you already kind of answered your own question.... By incorporating phrases from a solo you're working on for a song, by learning your favorite phrases from the solos of others, trying to learn the phrases of vocal melodies, analyzing rhythmic cadences in all of these things, those are all good places to start. I believe everyone knows_ how to phrase, what's "right or wrong" is in the eye of the creator, and the listener.
And, different players will always bring a different point of view as well. A jazz musician will have a different perspective vs. a rock musician, vs. a classical musician. I think it's good to hear all three sides mentioned here, and maybe listen to a few others; blues is another important one that comes to mind.
Hope that helps!

 

[Liverslapper]

Steve, i also notice that i incorperate blues phrasing into my workouts when i play metal. for example my solo's. cause they have a lot of feeling. Just wondering if that seems to make sence

 

[Noumenon]

I know that my phrasing was alot better and more interesting when the only thing I listened to (for a while) was thordendal and holdsworth, that really reflected on my playing. But as of late, the only thing I've been practicing has been arps and alternate picking. I've kinda lost the feel for some of the staccatos I did and the bending. Most I think is that me and our drummer doesn't jam as much as we used to.

 

[Steve Smyth]

I know that my phrasing was alot better and more interesting when the only thing I listened to (for a while) was thordendal and holdsworth, that really reflected on my playing. But as of late, the only thing I've been practicing has been arps and alternate picking. I've kinda lost the feel for some of the staccatos I did and the bending. Most I think is that me and our drummer doesn't jam as much as we used to.

Well, not jamming as much could be why you're feeling what you're feeling.
If Holdsworth and Thordendal are two of your faves, listen back to what you like best about them.Do you know some of their solos/riffs pretty well? That's a good place to start. It depends on what type of phrasing you're going for, I think. Maybe listen to other instruments? Jazz soloists( sax, piano, trumpet), classical soloists(violin,piano,woodwinds)? When you're practicing arpeggios and alternate picking, what types of phrasing are you working on there? Are there specific licks you're working out?

 

[Steve Smyth]

Steve, i also notice that i incorperate blues phrasing into my workouts when i play metal. for example my solo's. cause they have a lot of feeling. Just wondering if that seems to make sence

LS,
I think if that's the type of phrasing that catches your ear the most, then what's wrong with it? There's plenty of rock/metal players out there with a bluesy feel, albeit I'm a little more old school in my taste here: Eddie Van Halen, Randy Rhoads, George Lynch, even Paul Gilbert, to name a few well known/respected players with that kind of phrasing. I would like to think that this type of phrasing comes across in my playing at times.I hope it does anyway!

 

[Noumenon]

Oh sure, there's like two solos by thordendal I can nail. When practicing arps and alternate I just use a bunch of 16th triplets shapes and try to speed/clean them up. One tough thing is that I really suck at picking out solos by ear, add that fact to the thought of transcribing some thordendal/holdsworth stuff and you're in trouble Although, it's the slower melodic stuff that catches my ear the most, the other stuff is "just" alot of odd notes passing by in a hurry hehe

 

[Liverslapper]

LS,
I think if that's the type of phrasing that catches your ear the most, then what's wrong with it? There's plenty of rock/metal players out there with a bluesy feel, albeit I'm a little more old school in my taste here: Eddie Van Halen, Randy Rhoads, George Lynch, even Paul Gilbert, to name a few well known/respected players with that kind of phrasing. I would like to think that this type of phrasing comes across in my playing at times.I hope it does anyway!

Cool, thats what i try to work on.