i've read LRD's copy of Plato's Republic, and i have to agree with Danallica here, it was just as confusing as all those other "philosophical" books that we've been trying to readDanallica said:
Plato's Republic
- Thread starter speed
- Start date
Demiurge
This user has no title
Kids these days...haven't the patience to read anything more demanding than a sports article or comic book.
i'm offended by that, i've read Steven King's the Stand, L. Ron Hubbard's Battlefeild Earth, the entire Holy Bible and all the non-Judeo-Christian "holy texts" i could get my hands onDemiurge said:
Demiurge said:
I know, they dont even read the articles in Porno mags anymore.
This is a hot topic for me, so pardon the response:
In defense of our heathen cultureless American masses, if you have ever entered a high school which is supposed to be a institution of public education, one would learn there is very little education going on. I used to substitute teach history and english/literature a year and a half ago, and the kids were reading--I am not kidding here--Tuesday's With Morrie, and they had just finished The Hobbit. When these kids are taught from popular substandard writing, or from our pathetic canon of 20th century American literature, they are not going to be enthused about reading or writing. Furthermore, no public high school in my area teaches philosophy or requires the reading of any philosophical text. On to the college level, philosophy classes in my college were taught by bullies who refused to accept differing opinions, and focused on sections of great philosophical texts; and the English programs in colleges are insititutionalized liberal hogwash, unless one hits the grad level, where they become opinion sessions based on the prof's own undertstanding of the books they assign.
Norsemaiden
barbarian
Speed, you are right that I should read Plato and will have to fit in in somehow and thanks for the link to that Nietzche site. I have read some Plato when a teenager and was mostly thinking of how much I disagreed with it, but can't remember much now. With Nietzche there is also some things that seem silly, but he really makes excellent points. (Have only read Twilight of the Idols and Zarathustra).
derek
Grey Eminence
Nietzche is one philosopher i have been perennially interested in but utterly fail to read. I read a biography of his life...but, alas...nothing more.
derek
Grey Eminence
speed said:
Wonderful post. I find it shameful that kids in the home country of a mind as powerful as David Hume, have little or no understanding of who he is. (Thats a personal slant, given I live in scotland)
hibernal_dream
A Mind Forever Voyaging
Anyone who finds Plato difficult to read would have no chance understanding Hume. The Republic has to be one of the clearest philosophical works I've read.
hibernal_dream said:
There was just a newstory on yahoo about most College students lacking even the most basic skills to pick out arguments in the newspaper opinion columns http://http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060119/ap_on_go_ot/literacy_college_students;_ylt=AuNBZ8c45L3IXuFW.BMmXpys0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3ODdxdHBhBHNlYwM5NjQ--
And we wonder why people vote for W, and still think the Iraqi war was a good idea.
derek
Grey Eminence
hibernal_dream said:
I'm in thorough agreement with that. Plato and his method of dialogue to expose his philosophy allow it to be remarkably clear, rooted in an everyday spoken tongue. Hume, while quite the eloquent writer, can be difficult to read insomuch as his work comes from a different narrative stance allowing for more complex language.
With regards to the article speed posted: That does not particuarly suprise me, sadly. My former Tutor, Dr Atkin, ran a course on analysing media forms for fallicious arguments...and it is pretty damn easy most of the time! I think this harks back to when someone said that basic philosophy and its methods need to be taught in schools to younger children.
Dän;4394196 said:
haha, shit, I remember saying this, how dumb I was. I've just started writing an essay comparing Plato, Machiavelli and Weber's views on leadership and I'm actually quite enjoying it.
...Carry on
Interpreted in a post-Abrahamic sense, his ideas must seem like Christianity. But intelligent observers call that neo-Platonism, which means that it's part of the misconception he wanted to fix.
His concept of "forms" is misunderstood as an objectivist statement. It's not. It's a statement about the recognition of patterns and how most people get it wrong because they are looking for fixed values (shadows) in a world of motion. People perceive with their memories.
About censorship, of course he's right. No healthy society permits idiots to preach.
JColtrane
Member
Actually, he was more into the Pre-Socratic Greek philosophers (like Hibernal Dream said), and he was also very influenced by the tragic Greek poets Aeschylus and Sophocles, though he loathed Euripides (he saw him a sort of precursor to Plato).
True, Nietzsche did not like Plato. He did like certain aspects of Socrates however.
Also, to clear up one misconception in the first post, when Christ talks about the "Kingdom of God," or even "Kingdom of Heaven" he's very much talking about something in this world. When Jews used that phrase back in 1st century, it referred to the coming Messiah, whom most expected to vindicate them against the Romans in a political way. Obviously Jesus created a variation on that meaning; but it was still a this-worldly program, it was simply to come about in a different way.
Article can be found here:
http://home.mesastate.edu/~khaas/assessment/literacy_college_students&printer=1.htm
Original link here:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060119/ap_on_go_ot/literacy_college_students
You don't need the other shit after the title, incl. ";" for Yahoo links.
Article is FUCKING TERRIFYING by the way.
