Playing backing tracks live - How do?

[updog]

My band's music features a lot of synth, all of which our keyboardist doesn't have enough hands to play live. I thought to post this question on this section since it doesn't really have anything to do with music production or anything, so this is for any of your bands that play live and use backing tracks, or any of you who know the best way to do it or simply have useful tips. How do you guys do it?

The problem at the moment is mainly reliability. I've had my mp3 player, where I have the backing tracks like L - all the synths in mono and R - the click that comes to me so I can keep track where we're going (I'm the drummer) but it's a fucking cable and adapter hell right now. I don't like having a bunch of adapters in between - not to mention using my mp3 player, I'm pretty sure it will die the second we're on stage or something!

Here's what I'm using now - mp3-player -> 3.5mm to 6.35mm plug adapter -> an insert cable -> the backing track to PA and click to a DI box where I have random shitty headphones connected to, with a 6.35mm to 3.5mm adapter.

I've given this a lot of thought, but this is the best I've been able to do without spending a fortune. Any suggestions on how to simplify this thing? And I repeat, how do you guys do it? I'm sure many bands use backing tracks live, after all...

Also, if the best solution is to throw in some cash, I'd like to hear those solutions too... But not like "you NEED a $3000 music player for ya backing tracks"

 

[Kazrog]

The way you're doing this is actually the simplest approach. Using a laptop with an interface is much more complex potentially, especially if wireless in-ear monitors, mic pass-through boxes, and sub-mixes are involved. Welcome to the world of setup times that will cut into your set times, and result in angry soundmen who will mute you if you don't stop playing.

I used to do this with Backmask, never again. MP3 player + DI box FTW.

 

[plague_rider]

yeah thats what we used to do...

had a college project based around setting up a backing track...

Synths panned left, and click panned right

Synths to the front of house and click to the drummers headphones


bare in mind we had a simple setup, nothing fancy...

 

[HeadCrusher]

We are doing the iPod method the Following way:

Backing track has Click on one side and Samples on the other. iPod is plugged in to a Y-cable with 3.5mm stereo plug on one side and two 1/4" plugs on the other side. The two 1/4" each go to an input on a small mixer the drummer has right next to him. To monitor mix from FOH goes to another input of that mixer. The drummer uses a pre-fader Aux bus to control his mix of Click/Backing Track/Monitor mix (He uses IEM). Pulling up the fader of the channel with the Samples he can send them to FOH via the mixers Main output (only using one channel of course since the Samples are in Mono anyway).


Btw dude there have been at least ten threads about this on here recently. Use google to search for them.

 

[James Murphy]

contrary to what others have said on here... and if you want or need any stereo backing tracks, using a laptop and audio interface can be a very easy way to go... no need for submixes or lengthy extra set-up times or any of that which shane said.... laptop, audio interface, L+R XLRs to stage box, lead to headphone amp for drummer, firewire/usb cable from lappy to interface, and power for both... you can minimize this set up time even more by having everything in one travel rack, prewired... just pull out the cables and plug them in... one power cord from a power strip inside the rack, that the lappy supply and interface are already plugged into.... XLRs/leads already plugged in to interface... just uncoil them and jack them in.... seriously, you sit the rack on a chair by the drummer, 2-3 audio leads to plug in and one power lead... done. the headphone can be in the same rack, also prewired to the interface and internal power strip.

they only way i see to complicate it is if you also use the midi outs of the interface to do your channel switching for you on your rack/head... then it's just a midi cable or two out the guitar rack(s)/head(s)... so one or two more cables added to the first estimate.... and then you don't have to have a pedalboard in front of you onstage... really, it's simple as hell.

i remember recommending this set-up years ago to Richard Christy when he was about to tour with Iced Earth for the last CD he did with them.... they decided to do the iPod thing, and Richard told me he regretted that choice terribly.. the ipod had all kinds of problems... freezes, dying batteries, and output jack issues, over and over again through the course of a long tour.

meanwhile, bands like In Flames, Darkane, Dark Tranquility, etc etc... use the method i outlined above over and over again on long tours... and it works fine.

for one-off shows here and there, do what you gotta do.... but don't be afraid of the laptop method for longer tours, it's not necessarily a big deal to set up.. depends on how you do things with it. can be very simple, as above.

 

[DanLights]

I have used my Iphone (in airplane mode, no silly calls while playing) with a cable that ends in RCA stereo, plugged each side into a different input in a small mixer, there I pan and send the stuff like everybody else said. I have not yet found use for stereo backing tracks, I've had piano/strings stuff mostly and done all mono.

Although James does make an excellent point, it is not that hard to make it happen with a laptop and interface, although probably having an ipod with the tracks as a backup could be a good idea, you never know when the laptop's gonna die on you. I'd definitely do it Murhpy's way If I had the needed equipment (good, reliable laptop and interface) and will do it when I have it. About the set up time that eats into your set, with my Iphone/small mixer setup it's already like that so I'm used to it, we have to make it to the rehearsal place 30 minutes earlier than our time and we still start late haha

 

[updog]

Thanks a lot guys - I really appreciate the help! I'm always kind of lost when it comes to having to think stuff like what cable goes where, what it needs in between and what's the best way to do things... I'm a doomed AE like that.

When we'll start doing touring and such, the laptop would seem reasonable and easy enough to set up - Thanks James - but as for the time being, using an mp3-player would be the easiest choice. It's not too reliable though - I have a Creative that freezes and crashes a lot...

I'm thinking of doing the following for now; buying a 2-channel Behringer Xenyx mixer for backing tracks and monitoring my kick drum(it's triggered, I'm using a Roland module for the kick sound)... and I could buy 2 semi-cheap-ass mp3-players for playing live purposes only, one as a backup. Worth it?

 

[HeadCrusher]

I'd say get a mixer that has more than 2 channels. Anything within the 100 EUR Range will probably do but you never know when you need an extra channel.

James: With the laptop-method where does the drummer get the rest of the monitor mix (guitars, vocals...) from? I can think of ways how to do that. Just curious how the bands you mentioned do it.

 

[arv_foh]

James: With the laptop-method where does the drummer get the rest of the monitor mix (guitars, vocals...) from? I can think of ways how to do that. Just curious how the bands you mentioned do it.

the drummer's on stage monitor mix (floor wedges)

 

[HeadCrusher]

James: With the laptop-method where does the drummer get the rest of the monitor mix (guitars, vocals...) from if only In-Ear-Monitoring is used? I can think of ways how to do that. Just curious how the bands you mentioned do it.

Sorry, should have clarified a little more. Fixed.

 

[James Murphy]

not sure how each band approaches it.. i have had the thought that since the drummer is playing to a click anyway, his click could include the pre-recorded guitars / keys, and any other cues he could use to play the songs great... meaning you'd not need a wedge at all... which would of course greatly clean up the drum kit mics.

NOT saying all those tracks would go to FOH, just to the drummer, so he's able to play to tits-on tracks every night... regardless of what happens monitor-wise at various venues.

 

[DanLights]

Well when I do my click tracks for the drummer I include cues like a different kind of click sound on top of the normal one, marking any special entrance like after a stop or a significant tempo change, besides that I've never donde the pre-recorded guitars thing, not sure how that would work. Although not giving the drummer the other members as monitors probably is a good idea, after all if the other guys fuck up it's the drummers work to stay super tight to the backing track, if he gets confused by the others and follows them, then everything becomes a terrible mess

 

[HeadCrusher]

Good point. However I think that would be kinda odd for the drummer. He'd surely feel like he was in the studio recording every song over and over night after night...
Also how could that option handle songs that don't have backing tracks? At least In Flames used to play a few of their older tunes that don't have any samples going on. And they changed arrangement a little bit over the years so playing to the original tracks isn't an option here.

 

[DanLights]

well even if you didn´t have a backing track you should still have a click for the drummer I think. In flames, haven´t seen them live but if it´s like Katatonia is doing now then they all have click tracks in their IEMs, and most probably also have monitoring of the whole band, but they are bands with budget to do whatever they want, it must not be an issue for them

 

[updog]

I'd say get a mixer that has more than 2 channels. Anything within the 100 EUR Range will probably do but you never know when you need an extra channel.

I thought about that too, but I just can't think of any other signal I'd need coming into the mixer. All I really need is the click and the kick. If the monitoring is fine otherwise.

 

[HeadCrusher]

See, so what if it's not? You might have to plug the monitor feed into that mixer as well in order to hear it proberly. And what if you suddenly started to go the more-than-one-backing track-in-stereo-route? Of if you'd want to control your intro music yourself rather than have a soundman you don't know do it?

Really, I just checked and you can probably get something for 70 EUR. I guess even a two channel mix is gonna cost you 50 EUR. So what's the point? http://www.thomann.de/gb/cat.html?gf=small_mixers&oa=pra

 

[Jevil]

We never used backing tracks on live shows, but we will do soon, so we are reheasing with Ipod+Little Mixer. Left with the click, right with the tracks.

I'm a bit distrustful about this things, I mean, mp3 players, Ipods, Laptops... the more electronic gadget on stage, the more possibilities to go something wrong.

 

[James Murphy]

I always suggest this, even with the laptop set-up, but absolutely, without fail, if you do this with an iPod, have a second iPod ready with back-up copy of the same tracks cued up and ready to go... and practice switching them.... so that even if your ipod dies onstage, you'll be back up and running in seconds.... this is a must in my opinion, and ipods are cheap enough, so it's not a big deal financially, as a second laptop would be.

 

[ParsonsMatt]

My band used a laptop for backing tracks, click, and guitar amp sims live.

We'd plug both guitars direct into the Fireface's instrument inputs, the headphones went to the drummer, and then we'd give 4 XLR cables (Backing track L/R, Guitars I&II) to the soundman. We'd have a project in Reaper for every track, and we'd just switch projects out for every song. It was a great setup, since everything was automated, including effects, clean/distortion settings,volume for guitar solos, even muting for tighter parts, and we used the same presets for live that I used for recording, so it sounded very good IMO.

I'd do it differently now though... The previous way we were doing relied WAY too much on the soundman setting levels appropriately for our music, which the backing tracks are admittedly fairly important (very involved orchestra tracks). If I did it again, I'd just give the soundman one XLR cable with the entire mix summed to mono, and have the orchestra and guitars premixed to their appropriate volumes, and have a pair of PA monitors on stage (where the guitar amps would normally be) that had the guitar/orchestra coming out of them.

I'd even be tempted to run vocals through the Fireface as well, just so we can have compression/reverb/EQ/slight pitch correction and having it premixed properly, but I can imagine that'd be a bit of a nightmare if any issues happened.

Oh, and setup/teardown time is practically nothing. It took me ~5 minutes from everything in my backpack to all ready to go to have the entire thing setup.

 

[Keregioz]

Noob question: in the "Ipod/mp3 player" situation what is the DI box needed for?