Polygamy - For It or Agin It?

Is teh polygamy a good thing

  • yes. every good man should have multiple wivez.

    Votes: 4 66.7%
  • no. I can barely live with one woman much less 20.

    Votes: 5 83.3%
  • God said it was okay in the old testament.

    Votes: 2 33.3%
  • what the fuck is going on out west in America??

    Votes: 2 33.3%

  • Total voters
    6
  • Poll closed .
Authorities say the teens aren't really being expelled for what they watch or wear, but rather to reduce competition for women in places where men can have dozens of wives.

"It's a mathematical thing. If you are marrying all these girls to one man, what do you do with all the boys?" said Utah Atty. Gen. Mark Shurtleff, who has had boys in his office crying to see their mothers. "People have said to me: 'Why don't you prosecute the parents?' But the kids don't want their parents prosecuted; they want us to get the No. 1 bad guy - Warren Jeffs. He is chiefly responsible for kicking out these boys."

The 49-year-old Jeffs is the prophet, or leader, of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The FLDS, as it is known, controls Hildale and Colorado City.

The sect, which broke from the Mormon Church more than a century ago, has between 10,000 and 15,000 members. It believes in "plural marriage," that a man must have at least three wives to reach the highest levels of heaven. The Mormon Church forbids polygamy and excommunicates those who practice it.

Polygamy is also illegal, and in recent weeks law enforcement has turned up the heat on the FLDS.

On Friday, Jeffs was indicted in Arizona on charges that he had arranged a marriage between a 28-year-old man, who was already married, and a 16-year-old girl.

He faces two years in prison if convicted, though he hasn't been arrested and is thought to be in Texas.

A few days earlier, a Utah judge froze the assets of the United Effort Plan, an FLDS trust that owns most of the homes and land in the polygamous towns. And on May 24, the records of the financially troubled Colorado City Unified School District were seized to prevent any evidence of potential wrongdoing from being spirited away, according to the Arizona attorney general's office.

At the same time, Jeffs is being sued by five of the Lost Boys, who claim he conspired to banish them so church elders would have less competition for wives.

Jeffs has not responded to the lawsuit, filed in Utah's 3rd District Court, leaving him open to a default judgment from the bench.

"There is a virtual Taliban down there. You tell people this stuff happens and they don't believe it," said Dan Fischer, a former FLDS member and dentist living outside Salt Lake City who helps educate and house the exiled teens. The exodus "has been far more dramatic in the last year."

FLDS officials rarely speak to the media. But church lawyer Rodney Parker, who isn't a member of the faith, said some of the ousted boys were delinquents or proved unable to live up to the community's strict moral code.

"I think many are minimizing their own behavior," he said. "These places are very different and very strange. But broad-stroke claims about what goes on down there are exaggerations - and often fiction."

About half a dozen boys who spoke recently say it's all too real.

Tom Sam Steed said he was put on "religious probation" at 15 for sneaking off to see the film "Charlie's Angels." Shortly after, he said he was ejected from the FLDS, living temporarily in a tool shed. When he begged to return to the church, he said he was refused.

"I was really into the religion. I would have been the first to drink the poison Kool-Aid," said Steed, now 19. "I felt [the faith] was the only way to go to heaven."

He said he made a personal plea to Jeffs, meeting him in a Colorado City print shop.

"He told me I wasn't welcome," Steed said. "And on the way out he said: 'Just to let you know, when the final devastation comes, you will be destroyed.' I believed it completely. If you are told your whole life the Earth is flat, what else would you believe?"

Many of the exiled boys express affection for their hometowns, but seldom for the FLDS.

"It wasn't so bad until I got some knowledge of the world and saw how they treated us," said John Jessop, 16, who said he was thrown out two years ago. "I would definitely go live there again with my family. It's a great place, but I want no part of the religion."

Once children are expelled, the FLDS forbids parents from visiting them, and violating the rule can result in eviction from their church-owned homes, say state authorities and former town residents. Many parents sever all ties to their sons.

In some cases, families outside the communities have unofficially adopted the boys.

That's what happened to Gideon. A Mormon couple, Stacha and Neil Glauser of St. George, took him in.

"Taking Gideon was an impulsive thing," said Stacha Glauser, a 47-year-old hairdresser with two other teenagers. "I just couldn't stand seeing a kid kicked out into the streets."

As a child, she heard strange stories about the polygamous towns, stories of men with dozens of wives, hundreds of children and homes the size of barns.

According to Gideon, he is one of 71 children born to his father, 73-year-old Dan Barlow, and his father's eight wives.

The Barlows were among Colorado City's first settlers and have served as political leaders and lawmen. Gideon's father was mayor.

But last year Jeffs called a meeting. He announced that Dan Barlow and 20 other men were being expelled. His reasons were never fully explained.

Then he "reassigned" their wives and children to other men, say local authorities and witnesses.

"Warren said, 'All who agree with the decision stand up,' and I stood up," Gideon said. "I stood because I was scared. My dad left that day."

Suddenly, Gideon had a new father - one who he said didn't like him listening to music, wearing short-sleeved shirts and mingling with girls. The pressure built. His mother made a pile of his CDs and shirts to toss out. Finally, he said, Jeffs gave the order for him to leave.

When Gideon called his exiled father in St. George for help, he was rebuffed.

"He told me we had two different goals," Gideon said. "He wanted to get back into the community and said he couldn't help me."

Dan Barlow could not be reached for comment.

Gideon was staying with friends in St. George when the Glausers heard of his plight from a woman sympathetic to the Lost Boys.

"When Gideon came, he didn't know how to act around people," Stacha Glauser said. "This was like a foreign country for him."

Like many kids from his hometown, Gideon's poor education left his vocabulary wanting. When he was hungry, for instance, he asked Glauser to "build" him something to eat.

"I met his mother once; she was just a baby when she had him," Glauser said. "I told her she had a really wonderful son. She said she did the best she could, and that was it."

Last summer, five of the boys who left Colorado City and Hildale filed their lawsuit, claiming they were excommunicated unfairly. Gideon is not part of the suit.

Joanne Suder, a Baltimore lawyer and lead counsel in the case, said the expulsions had resulted in emotional and psychological damage to her clients.

"They are clearly trying to get rid of the competition. Warren Jeffs himself is reputed to have 70 wives," Suder said. "These kids are kicked out and lose the only world they ever knew. They leave without an education and can have no further contact with their family. It's horrible."

Despite the open practice of polygamy in these towns, authorities have been careful how they pursue offenders.

In 1953, Arizona state police swarmed into Short Creek, now Colorado City. They arrested the men and transported crying women and children to detention camps. The result was a public outpouring of sympathy for the families - and scorn for state political leaders. The governor, Howard Pyle, lost the next election.

Today, law enforcement officials are going after the FLDS by targeting child sexual abuse, welfare fraud and tax evasion rather than polygamy. The Arizona attorney general's office has opened a branch in Colorado City, where an investigator looks into alleged illegalities.

In 2003, Rodney Holm, a Colorado City police officer, was sentenced to a year in prison and three years' probation on charges of bigamy and unlawful sex with two girls, 16 and 17. Another FLDS member, Orson William Black Jr., was charged with child sex crimes and is still at large.

Meanwhile, authorities believe Jeffs has left Colorado City and may be staying with family at a 1,600-acre compound the FLDS is building near Eldorado, Texas.

The spiritual heart of the church lies in Hildale and Colorado City, communities a mile apart with a combined population of about 10,000.

The towns sit at the foot of the remote and majestic Vermillion Cliffs, a place of red rock isolation. Women walk the streets in bonnets and trousers under long dresses. Their hair is pinned high on their heads, often with a braided ponytail hanging in back.

Many of the boys said children didn't attend school past the eighth grade and that they were taught that blacks were inferior - the offspring of Cain and doomed to slavery. Such views have earned the FLDS a hate-group designation by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

The children are told that dinosaurs came from another planet, and man never walked on the moon. More important, they learn the outside world is wicked and salvation comes through obedience to the prophet, who channels God's will.

According to those inside and outside the community, this way of life has become even stricter since Jeffs took over in 2002. Competitive sports - said to promote pride - have been curtailed or eliminated. Swimming is frowned upon, and talking to a girl can earn a boy a visit from the local police.

Ross Chatwin, who lives in Colorado City, said when Jeffs took charge, "rumors started going around that if you weren't obedient, you would be kicked out."

Chatwin, 36, was ordered out last year for trying to marry a second wife without the prophet's permission. He refused to budge from his sparsely furnished home in the center of town, and now is in a legal battle with the city, which once moved another family into his house and briefly shut off his utilities.
 
I didnt read the entire article but how the fuck can it be ILLEGAL? Isn't that intrusive on people's personal lives? I mean, if it is for tax reasons, you can only claim one wife anyway. No? I don;t understand.
 
:tickled: I just don't see what the big deal is. What's the difference between that, and some guy who has a mistress? I mean, it is possible to be be detrimental to family upbringing due to societal conditioning of the family, but that's about it. Humans aren;t naturally monogamous.
 
although I'm happily married I have often wondered about whether a man, especially, is suited for monogamy. I mean, I can understand where females have traditionally had to look for a man who could protect and feed her and her offspring, and in tribal societies the death rate of men due to warfare and hunting accidents more or less demanded polygamy as a means of keeping up the population.

if polygamy was all about this:
polygamy.jpg
 
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Swazi king weds 18-year-old as 12th wife
Mon Jun 13, 2005 07:02 AM ET


MBABANE (Reuters) - Swaziland's King Mswati III took an 18-year-old former Miss Teen Swaziland finalist as his 12th wife at the weekend, barely two weeks after marrying his 11th, media in the tiny African kingdom said.

Nothando Dube was selected as Mswati's fiancee after last year's Reed Dance, an event where thousands of maidens dance bare breasted in honour of the Queen Mother and where Mswati has chosen wives in the past.
 
Yeah, I don't get how it's illegal either. Where does that law stem from? Christianity?

In Islam, a man can take up to 4 wives, so neither does the law or the religion prevent it. They just accept the fact that this whole notion of one man staying with one woman his entire life is bogus, it 'aint gonna happen, and goes against instinctual primal patterns.

I'm not sure if there are any other animals that stay monogamous. I hear dolphins are supposed to be, but that could just be bullshit spouting from the lips of a dolphin loving feminist.
 
"Can't do very much damage with that now, can we. Shoulda been the rule of wrist!"

Consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want with each other. The problem with polygamy, at least in the cases in Utah you see on TV, is that the women are brainwashed, abused, etc. Also wives 7 thru 10 are usually about 7 to 10 years old.
 
It might come from Christianity. I'd have to look.

However, I'm pretty sure, some of the more famous people in the Old Testament had multiple wives. Again, I'd have to look. But of course, that's the Old Testament, and has nothing to do with Christianity.

Sidenote Fact: When you compare an Old Testament scripture with one from the New Testament looking for inconsistencies, your argument is thrown in the shitter.
 
I live in a very Jewish neighboUrhood, and the other day, I got a flyer invite for some local pastor wedding reception. Funny thing is, they were Jews. They call themselves "Jews for Jesus". I didn't know such a thing could exist!
 
I just read up on this Warren Jeffs mofo after completely dismissing the cavalcade of news headlines that have been littering the information superhighway for the past month or so. Good fucking Lord what the hell is a matter with these fucking people?!!? EricT perhaps you can offer some of the excommunicated males a job in your factory??! Surely, they would put forth a greater effort in their work than the frijole dipping dijaneros you currently have underneath you?! :erk:


Eerily, the man bares a resemblance to my own father. :err:

Jeffs_mugshot.jpg