All of history has been predetermined from the very beginning of the universe. Now try to disprove me.
Predetermination of the Universe
- Thread starter Vegetarian
- Start date
If we take a grenade in a vacuum. Pull the pin, let it explode... if you were to somehow pause time and be able to measure EVERY POSSIBLE detail about the explosion, you would be able to measure exactly what happened to every single atom that was part of the original grenade. The big bang is nothing more than an extreme explosion. If it were possible to pause time an instant after the bang happened, an all knowing physicist could predict exactly where each planet would form and every detail about it.
We are simply a function of the past-- even our decisions. Just functions of DNA and past experiences, which are functions of older DNA and older experiences, which eventually are just molecules reacting to certain conditions that were established by the planet flying through space as a result of the big bang. Your next post is no less inevitable than an apple obeying the laws of gravity.
This is just a theory. Gravity is just a theory as well. Nothing, except arguably mathematics, can be "proved."
Einherjar86
Active Member
Möglich;7310136 said:
*proven*
There are no "all-knowing physicists." If someone was all-knowing then yes, he or she could predict anything. But there is no all-knowing being. Therefore nothing can be known for certain. We aren't bound by any predestined order or end. I do agree that every decision we make is a result of our past:
"The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how can you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before?"
All men are slaves to history. Culture, religion, social functions... all these things bind us in some way and affect all our decisions and choices. However, this does not make history predetermined or definite. This only means that as history progresses, we are affected by the twists and turns that it takes. We have the power to break from these chains, but most people are afraid to do so because of social judgment and consequences.
I find it hard to believe this, considering how all of our thoughts and decisions come out of previous experiences and DNA, which are affected by many forces previous to them. It's impossible to disprove this arguement, and it is also the logical answer.
your talking about predetermined fate, final destination, that which was set in motion was unavoidable. Its a very interesting idea and it can't be disproven nor like so many other things can it be proved. Most of these kinds of theories are great mental entertainment but thats about it.
Veg - Read much quantum physics? I haven't, but am led to believe that your view of things would have been more popular prior to Einstein...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_indeterminacy
Far as I can make out it suggests that the current state of things can only ever be indicative of certain probabilities for future states, that there has been no 'necessity' in events since the big bang, just likelihoods.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_indeterminacy
Far as I can make out it suggests that the current state of things can only ever be indicative of certain probabilities for future states, that there has been no 'necessity' in events since the big bang, just likelihoods.
derek
Grey Eminence
Einherjar86
Active Member
It's also impossible to prove it, and it's far from the logical choice. Actually, it's the most illogical. If human beings can free themselves from these chains of history/culture, they can become free, self-moving souls. People can make decisions without these factors influencing them. The belief in a predetermining force governing all that we do means that we submit ourselves to a fictional cultural/religious/historical construct (in my opinion... see, this is the problem). There's no reason to believe that such a force exists. If human beings are slaves, then we are self-made slaves; not slaves to a preternatural force.
I think you are both arguing entirely seperate matters... it is easy enough to argue that the man who 'breaks free of his cultural shackles' does so only because of of his genetics, experience, and the very culture he rejects. Determinism doesn't imply that everyone ends up the same in the same culture...
They can't. Whether or not something is in their conscious, it's still in their subconscious. Also, there have to be factors for why they decided to do that.
I take it no one has had a substancial amount of coincidental occurances in thier life ? I've had a fair amount, they always leave me wondering, but I have always had more leanings toward fate than faith. I also dont put the significance in free will that others do, always seems to still be someone pulling the strings.
**Galder needs to get out in the sun more
**Galder needs to get out in the sun more
Einherjar86
Active Member
Question: by predetermined, do you mean that all of history has been predetermined by some preternatural force(let us call it "God") or by Man himself? Because those are two very different ideas.
Not true at all. I have experienced a very large number of coincidences so far in my life.
**Yes, but most of his paleness is due to the corpsepaint.
It feels like something is controlling you? That must be odd...
Enough said I guess... personally I'm more inclined to side with one of the greater minds we've seen and the weight of scientific consensus
Einherjar86
Active Member
That basically means the same thing as saying that a greater, preternatural force is controlling everything.
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